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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
 
   Posted 8/4/2008 9:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/08/04/midmorning1/


See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.  All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

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JET
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Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 397
 
   Posted 8/4/2008 11:11 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://washingtonindependent.com/view/batmans-dark-knight
 
Quote from article [mini spoiler alert at end of post]:
 
"... Nolan's version of Batman is motivated by moral philosopher Michael Walzer's "dirty hands" argument. Walzer grappled with the problems on display in "The Dark Knight" and proposed, in an influential 1973 essay, that the key to engaging in morally dubious activities, like torture, during times of emergency is to acknowledge their heinousness and, once the emergency passes, accept legal sanction for the burden of saving the world.

One problem with Walzer's argument, as its many critics have noted, is that the results are still horrific -- torture, indefinite detention, assassination and other such practices incompatible with civilization. Another is that it presumes that once unlimited authorities are handed to an individual, that person can be trusted to relinquish them -- or even to determine, contrary to his or her interest, that the emergency has passed.

In the world of comic, that's easy. Batman is Batman -- he's conflicted, sure, but he's a hero. That's why in both movies, little children -- fellow incorruptibles -- are the only ones who neither fear nor hate him: they can see him as he sees himself.

But in the real world, this concept is ludicrous and anti-American.

First, it presumes an absurd omnipotence that the Cheneys of the world can even tell who is and who isn't a real threat -- a proposition shattered by the unreality of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda in 2003.

Second, it presumes that the emergency will pass at some point, though Cheney and his allies have repeatedly said they view it as open-ended and generational. In testimony earlier this month to a House panel, Addington hectored members of Congress for, in his view, suggesting that the danger from Al Qaeda had somehow diminished after seven years of the war on terrorism. Former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld famously dubbed it "The Long War."

Third, it gives Al Qaeda exactly what it wants -- open-ended wars of occupation that deplete U.S. military and financial resources, increase Muslim discontent at U.S. policy and, ultimately, makes the the world a more dangerous place.
 
[End of quote.]
 
Plus, an interesting quote from the first comment by drvictordavishj regarding the "boat scene in which the democracy votes to pull the trigger, but no individual is strong enough to go through with pushing the button": 
 
"... At first I was upset that this was an example of the filmmakers buying into Cheney-esque assumptions about needing someone willing to get their hands dirty.  But then they contrast that dilemma against someone who simply refuses to play the game, and stands above it (Tiny Lister throwing the detonator out the window) ..."
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Sahid
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Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
 
   Posted 8/4/2008 12:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"What if aliens appeared with an inter-dimensional machine and gave you the option of pushing a button that would..."

One standard response is that these scenarios are given greatly disproportional attention given their implausibility. For instance, in The Dark Knight, we have to have invented a criminal who is enormously wealthy but unconcerned with wealth and also an organizational genius who happens to value chaos. In that situation, what do you do (assuming that you are also enormously wealthy and have the skills, physique, and technology of batman of course)? Not exactly the most pertinent question.

What makes it pertinent is the mythology of power. For thousands of years now the tactics are still based on a few key principals, Cheney didn't invent this anew. Essentially, you must convince people that they are living in a batman movie. This means portraying the good guy as conflicted but basically good at heart. This helps explain those "little" sins along the way. The good guy must also be strong; he must be worthy of our faith. He must be a preserver of the status quo despite his acknowledgment of it's intrinsic faults which are always the next thing to do on the list of things to address. The villain must be basically bad despite making some good points along the way. His power must be a true threat so serious that extreme measures can be justified.

As long as this story is successfully told, anything goes.


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member




Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
 
   Posted 8/8/2008 4:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

An Antichrist Obama in McCain Ad?

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