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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/23/2008 12:08 PM (GMT -6) |   | Something else. Does the "minutia" that Divine Presence ALWAYS working with us on...involves the "borders" of our ego-consciousness (that is, the unconscious and the preconscious) via the Holy Spirit? How God would work with people in "visions" and "dreams"? Like Jung's "collective unconscious"?
It would make sense to me.
Whole thread.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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selah
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| Posted 10/23/2008 2:27 PM (GMT -6) | | | Hey D. How about "God sustains and loves Jeffery Dahmer or ___fill in the name of someone who shoots kids in school___." Why confuse kids with teaching them that God LOVES the enemy of THEIR soul?
seriously?
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love." ~ Soren Kierkegaard Post Edited (selah) : 10/23/2008 2:30:41 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 2:35 PM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
Hey D. How about "God sustains and loves Jeffery Dahmer or ___fill in the name of someone who shoots kids in school___." Why confuse kids with teaching them that God LOVES the enemy of THEIR soul?
seriously?
Actually, Selah, what's confusing as to a child...is the concept of unconditional love and "love your enemies"...when God is said NOT to...
1) show unconditional love via his creating, sustaining power
and
2) love HIS enemies, meaning Satan and demons, which are still God's creation.
Unconditional love and conditionality of love based on sin...are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 10/23/2008 2:43:17 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/23/2008 2:41 PM (GMT -6) | | It's simple. Irresistable force vs. immovable object. If one exists, the other cannot.
Irresistable force: Unconditional Love
Immovable object: Irredeemable Sin.
One of these exists. The other does not.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 2:45 PM (GMT -6) | | Seriously, how does any child believe that WE are supposed to "love our enemies" if God doesn't love Satan?
And, serious as a heart attack...
During one of the chapel services I was hosting at St Joseph's Home for Children, TWO of the kids ended up asking me essentially the same question:
DOES GOD LOVE SATAN? IF NOT, WHY SHOULD I LOVE MY ENEMIES?
And these were kids STEEPED in violence, abuse, and neglect...by supposed "loved ones" who acted in very enemy-like ways to them.
Guess what I was able to tell them? Talk about practical...yeah... 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 2:49 PM (GMT -6) | | And unless we are going to UTTERLY SEPARATE God's Love from God's creative Presence...then we need to just get biblical. For real. Christ-the-Logos loves Satan...because God sustains Satan at every moment in unconditional love...just like he does EVERY OTHER CREATURE IN CREATION.
Ain't this just right?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 2:56 PM (GMT -6) | | Something else. This is when I knew that there was something screwy with Greg's theology...with the whole "Does God Love Satan" thing. I think I told y'all that time the reducio ad absurdum took place where (long story short), Greg, being forced to take his thoughts out to their logical conclusions about character solidification into evil, said that it was possible for there to be a human being on the earth, fully solidified in to evil (like Satan) whom God COULD NOT and WOULD NOT love. From Greg's perspective then, "there was no more of them to love." All this to get away from the idea that God could love Satan unconditionally.
I was like...
"Oh HAYELL, NAW! (Really. I said that!) You mean to tell me that there could be a human being RIGHT NOW walking around RIGHT NOW (I then pointed out of the window of the coffee shop we were in) that God DOES NOT LOVE and CANNOT LOVE because they have solidified themselves into sin...and there's 'nothing left for God to love'? Is that what you are saying?
He said yeah.
I thought I fell into the Twilight Zone! 
But then again, Greg also said that God had NOTHING DIRECT to do with the creation of the Candiru fish. He said it was ALLLLLLL Satan's fault. Even the VERY NATURE of the fish was Satan's doing.
Yeah...
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 10/23/2008 3:01:06 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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selah
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Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 10/23/2008 3:02 PM (GMT -6) | | Yes Corey, I do think we can/should use human examples.
And D, my son asked me that question too...long ago.
I told him, "I don't know, but I DO know that satan is antithetical to God/love in every way. He is opposed to God in his being and his doing. He is not someone who has potential to repent. He IS evil.
And then I taught my son to think about loving our actual human enemies and not the enemy of his soul. I think that worked...and I bet it would work for the kids at St joes.
Also, think about YOUR approach. Are you telling me those kids need to know God loves the one who created and sustains ALL THE VIOLENCE they experience in their own lives?
PS I WAS one of those kids. I know from the inside what it's like to grasp onto Christ BECAUSE he is in solidarity with me - against evil. It would have confused the crap out of me to think God loves the evil one (singular) just as much as he loves me.
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
Post Edited (selah) : 10/23/2008 3:07:29 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 3:06 PM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
And then I taught my son to think about loving our actual human enemies and not the enemy of his soul.
Um...we have no human enemies, remember?
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood (human beings), but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 3:08 PM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
Are you telling me those kids need to know God loves the one who created and sustains ALL THE VIOLENCE they experience in their own lives?
I think that children need to know what "God as Creator" and "God is Love" means...in Christ-the-Logos. That's my responsibility, isn't it?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 3:12 PM (GMT -6) | | It's really interesting to me that there's this much conversation over this.
1) Christ-the-Logos IS constantly sustaining Satan by the Power of the Holy Spirit from the inside RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK.
2) This is Christ's LOVE and GRACE upon Satan...same as with all Creation that exists.
3) Satan is Christ's "enemy."
These are all FACTS, Selah! Theology 101, right?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 3:16 PM (GMT -6) | | Ok. Let's go slow.
Corey, let's take it back to basics.
1) Is Satan being sustained RIGHT NOW by Christ-the-Logos as Creator? Yes or no?
2) If yes to #1, can Christ-the-Logos' sustanance of Satan (a creature) be DISSOCIATED from Christ-the-Logos' love for Creation? Yes or no.
3) Does #1 and #2 together imply that God loves Satan? Yes or no?
I'm trusting the INTP-ness here. Objectivity. 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/23/2008 3:19 PM (GMT -6) | | I really am amazed that this is such a spot of contention. For real.
I asked Alan Padgitt (from Luther Seminary) this question YEARS AGO and he was like...
"Well, of course. (God loves Satan) Who would disagree with that?"
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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selah
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| Posted 10/23/2008 3:23 PM (GMT -6) | | |
Does that answer my question? Which is more important for the children you work with 1. God is with you against the powers of evil 2. God is the Creator and God is love in Christ the Logos?
To me, number one gives life and hope...and an experience of true love. Number 2 gives philosophy/theology/opinion...
You'll have to decide which is your responsibility. Someone told me: Guess what? Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. That includes ALL the pain and suffering you experience. God hates it. God wants it over. God is with YOU.
That saved my life.
One Love said...Selah: Are you telling me those kids need to know God loves the one who created and sustains ALL THE VIOLENCE they experience in their own lives? I think that children need to know what "God as Creator" and "God is Love" means...in Christ-the-Logos. That's my responsibility, isn't it?
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/23/2008 3:25 PM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
Does that answer my question? Which is more important for the children you work with 1. God is with you against the powers of evil 2. God is the Creator and God is love in Christ the Logos?
To me, number one gives life and hope...and an experience of true love. Number 2 gives philosophy/theology/opinion...
Number 2 (God as Creator, God is Love) GROUNDS THE REALITY for Number 1 (God is with you against the powers of evil) . What are you talking about?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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