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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/9/2008 8:09 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Go through these...and see how many of them that you do in a day.
Sheesh!
Lord, have MERCY on me...a consistently misrelating relator.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 7:53 AM (GMT -6) | | It makes sense why the human ego is so "fallen"...
Defense Mechanisms
Transference
The biggie: DENIAL
This stuff affects every human being's ego development, right, Selah?
No wonder it's so hard for humans to follow God's law. God's law deals with being TRUTHFUL with oneself...and our egos seem bent on HIDING US from the truth of our lives for various reasons.
Make sense, Selah?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 10/20/2008 7:56:40 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/20/2008 8:09 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
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Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 10/20/2008 9:34 AM (GMT -6) | | I'm all jacked up. Dang.
What amazes me is that Jesus wasn't. Jesus, a REAL man, in a real historical context, with jacked up people all around him, was perfectly related, ordered, contented, motivated, etc. Didn't suffer from any of this stuff.
How amazing it would be to hang out with somebody like that.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 10:54 AM (GMT -6) | | From what I see, you'd effectively have an anxiety-free, shame-free, fear-free human being who could still experience negative emotionality through compassion and truth. (Jesus wept.)
Just my speculations....
 Jesus' "id" may have corresponded to all of the genetic memory inheritances he got from Mary, the Theotokos, getting all the "good" and "bad" from that. (Instinctual [Moro reflex, grasping], etc.) He was in "fallen" human nature, remember. Jesus' "superego" may have corresponded to God's Word, as modeled for him and experienced in and through faithful parents (Joseph and Mary) and developing faith/life in Scripture. (This includes his messianic understanding [ego ideal?]) Jesus' "ego" may have mediated these two realities, empowered and sustained by the Holy Spirit. If all this worked out, Jesus' "ego" would never be under self-condemnation...because Jesus' ego would never feel fundamental shame, absence, or separation from his Source. (God) Therefore, Jesus' mental energy would not be wasted upon defending himself from reality on any level. Moreover, He would live in the freedom and power of understanding himself being "God's Son" who could see the "You are gods" thing from a whole different perspective... ...which would naturally SET OFF all kinds of judging ego defense mechanisms in his persecutors!  Jesus being "fully human" has interesting implications possibly...
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 10/20/2008 11:41:05 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Thought:
What does "sin" really entail but some level of SUPPRESSION and/or DENIAL of God's Reality?
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of human beings who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal human beings and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 10/20/2008 11:11:24 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:01 AM (GMT -6) | | Every year Jesus' parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Festival, according to the custom. After the Festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And as Jesus grew up, he increased in wisdom and in favor with God and people.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 10/20/2008 11:04:09 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/20/2008 11:28 AM (GMT -6) | | Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread."
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'People do not live on bread alone.' "
The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours."
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' "
The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you
to guard you carefully;
they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.
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God's Word was Jesus' of Nazareth's "conscience"! Psalm 119.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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selah
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:28 AM (GMT -6) | | Yes yes yes yes...indeed...YES!
But, the more we hide, the more others seem to like us. That's the harder problem! The less truthful we are, the more we are affirmed. The more truthful we are, the more we seem to "threaten" the ppl around us who are perfectly "happy" hiding....
Round and round we go where we stop nobody knows... 
One Love said...It makes sense why the human ego is so "fallen"... Defense Mechanisms
TransferenceThe biggie: DENIALThis stuff affects every human being's ego development, right, Selah?
No wonder it's so hard for humans to follow God's law. God's law deals with being TRUTHFUL with oneself...and our egos seem bent on HIDING US from the truth of our lives for various reasons.
Make sense, Selah?
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love." ~ Soren Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/20/2008 11:32 AM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
But, the more we hide, the more others seem to like us. That's the harder problem! The less truthful we are, the more we are affirmed. The more truthful we are, the more we seem to "threaten" the ppl around us who are perfectly "happy" hiding....Round and round we go where we stop nobody knows...
This is why "the world" is a bad thing. The world's system's ASSUME and CODIFY ego-defensive behavior on an individual and corporate level. The "elemental principles" of how we run how we do things end up skewed from the jump! Individual and communal EMPIRE building and CONSUMERISM...which begins deviating from reality with drastic consequences (thinking of Easter Island...or maybe our own current economic crisis)
Right?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:38 AM (GMT -6) | | So, here's the question.
If a human infant has faith-filled, Spirit-filled family support systems like Jesus did...AND consistent, age-appropriate exposure to God's Word like Jesus did...AND the Holy Spirit empowering the developing human ego in it's God-ward choices like we saw in Jesus...
then what?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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selah
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:47 AM (GMT -6) | | Well, I think even Jesus' family deviated...didn't they? Didn't his brothers deny him/think him looney etc?
Personally, I don't think we need great amounts of family support. Even now, broken as we are, we can do this!
Jesus just did what he saw his father doing. He wasn't swayed by all the above categories.
We CAN live that way too. We can live in the moment, refuse to put crazy demands on each other, listen and believe one another, and freakin remember: We have one commanding officer. ONE. When all else fails, do as Jesus did - look at him/look like him. period.
Idealistic? Maybe 
But, maybe we just need to keep it simple?
love, peace and butterflies,
selah
shout out to TGB!!! Howz life?
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:49 AM (GMT -6) | | Deut 11.
Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates, so that your days and the days of your children may be many in the land that the LORD swore to give your ancestors, as many as the days that the heavens are above the earth.
From a human development perspective, this just makes sense, now doesn't it?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Have a question. What do you think about one of Greg's sermons where he said that when a child KNOWS that it is loved by his/her parents then they think they can do anything? Essentially, Greg was sounding rather like Dobson here.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 11:52 AM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
Well, I think even Jesus' family deviated...didn't they? Didn't his brothers deny him/think him looney etc?
I'm thinking about the DEVELOPMENTAL STAGES that Jesus would have to go through as a human. From infancy to age 12. His fundamental source of super-ego circumscription in that development (especially from 6 months to 2 years old) would have been Mary and Joseph, yes?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 12:01 PM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
Personally, I don't think we need great amounts of family support. Even now, broken as we are, we can do this!
Jesus just did what he saw his father doing. He wasn't swayed by all the above categories.
We CAN live that way too. We can live in the moment, refuse to put crazy demands on each other, listen and believe one another, and freakin remember: We have one commanding officer. ONE. When all else fails, do as Jesus did - look at him/look like him. period.
I hear ya. What I'm saying is this: the more supportive structures humans have...and the earlier the appear...the LESS ego problems they will have to deal with as they go through life, maturing from childhood, through adolescence, into adulthood. For example, there is a lot I had to go through because of my dad's alcoholism during my childhood. That effected me negatively...following me up to my current adulthood. Had that not been there, that may have been LESS social pressure on my fragile and developing ego. Now, of course, it's my responsibility to work against these things in my own life...and the responsibility for self-development and self-correction is not abrogated. But won't it be good for my kids NOT to have to deal with an alcoholic parent growing up?
See what I'm saying?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 10/20/2008 12:13 PM (GMT -6) | | Basically Greg was saying that for healthy human development a child needs to know that it's loved by both of its parents. I'm essentially agreeing with you. There are certain stages in our development where we need that familial support (which means that I disagree with Selah here). But if that is the case, then what is it to make a case for exposure to the Word and the influence of the Holy Spirit? Ultimately I guess the question I'm asking is "What is normal?" (What does a healthy human person look like?) If we believe that people are normal, healthy human beings via familial structures, whence the Holy Spirit? I gotta go to work. I'll try to find that sermon when I get home tonight.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/20/2008 12:22 PM (GMT -6) | | Brandon:
Basically Greg was saying that for healthy human development a child needs to know that it's loved by both of its parents. I'm essentially agreeing with you. There are certain stages in our development where we need that familial support (which means that I disagree with Selah here). But if that is the case, then what is it to make a case for exposure to the Word and the influence of the Holy Spirit? Ultimately I guess the question I'm asking is "What is normal?" (What does a healthy human person look like?) If we believe that people are normal, healthy human beings via familial structures, whence the Holy Spirit?
Christianly speaking, I look at the "first family". Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit and receptive to the Word of God that came to her. Joseph was a man of faith in God who was also receptive to the Word of God that came to him. Both lead self-sacrificial lives to live according to the Word...and both were empowered by the Spirit in those lives. In my mind, we can't separate God's the Son's Incarnation from the Parents (and the Theotokos shows us that).
And we didn't even talk about John the Baptist (who was filled with the Spirit from birth) and HIS parents!
Merely having "good" human familial relationships aren't enough. (Let the dead bury the dead?) Parenting without the Spirit and Word are less likely to yield the spiritual power seen otherwise.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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selah
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| Posted 10/20/2008 12:27 PM (GMT -6) | |
One Love said...I hear ya. What I'm saying is this: the more supportive structures humans have...and the earlier the appear...the LESS ego problems they will have to deal with as they go through life, maturing from childhood, through adolescence, into adulthood. For example, there is a lot I had to go through because of my dad's alcoholism during my childhood. That effected me negatively...following me up to my current adulthood. Had that not been there, that may have been LESS social pressure on my fragile and developing ego. Now, of course, it's my responsibility to work against these things in my own life...and the responsibility for self-development and self-correction is not abrogated. But won't it be good for my kids NOT to have to deal with an alcoholic parent growing up? See what I'm saying?
Yep, I see what you're saying. I'm writing a book on exactly that topic. Seriously... you'll freak out when you see it!
I even deal with "how to prevent" NPD!!! Well, I deal with the "nurture" side of nature/nurture.
Anyway, yes. GIVE YOUR KIDS WHATEVER YOU CAN...they'll need it. But, as for us, I think this is our best counsel:
Do not conform ANY LONGER to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
And
And ALL of us, with unveiled faces, SEEING the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, ARE BEING transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.
~it only takes a spark to get a fire going~
selah
"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love." ~ Soren Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/20/2008 12:38 PM (GMT -6) | | I'm in the midst of crafting a sermon idea centering on Ephesians 4...about the putting away all "malice" and "lying".
Can you imagine what would happen if everyone, by the power of the Spirit, stopped being malicious to themselves (via self-judgment, egoic self-shaming/guilting) and stopped lying to themselves (to protect themselves from their OWN self-judgment/self-shaming)?
I think everything would fundamentally change...
You can't stop being malicious and lying to others...when you constantly live by self-deceit and self-judgement.
This is the reciprocal of "loving one's neighbor AS ONESELF". If you don't love yourself, you WON'T truly love anyone else.
------------------------------------------------------
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in someone else's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from the other person's eye.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 10/20/2008 12:43:34 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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