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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 11/6/2008 12:12 PM (GMT -6) |   | I do think you hold to group identity politics though. The way you sound you make it seem as if blacks were the only ones that were and still are being treated very unfairly via structural evils. The whole idea of your emphasis on a "black president" seems indicative of this ie. I was told I could not do this, I could not do that, etc. C'mon man...most citizens are being treated unjusticely by government.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 11/6/2008 12:36 PM (GMT -6) | | INFP? Selah. Ooops. Sorry. I was rushing. But you're a big beautiful F! Ha!
I'll try to get back to ya with an answer. Right now I gotta go work out. Gotta keep that jarhead bod of mine in shape. ;o)
Hugs and kisses,
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/6/2008 12:40 PM (GMT -6) | | Brandon:
I do think you hold to group identity politics though. The way you sound you make it seem as if blacks were the only ones that were and still are being treated very unfairly via structural evils. The whole idea of your emphasis on a "black president" seems indicative of this ie. I was told I could not do this, I could not do that, etc. C'mon man...most citizens are being treated unjusticely by government.
Lord...
Ok.
Ok...
Brandon. I was relaying what happened to me as a child. MY experience...and how that shaped my self-understanding about what I could and couldn't achieve as an African-American. I, in no way, was saying that that bolded part...as if "blacks" were the only people to suffer under systemic oppression and structural evil. I would never say something that.
So...get that straight. Right now. For real. 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/6/2008 11:44:19 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/6/2008 12:41 PM (GMT -6) | |
selah said...today is a very good day! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ selah: every GOOD gift comes from above. That's all I'm saying. It really isn't about government vs the Church. Unity exists among people in the US and this is our evidence. And there is goodness to be celebrated.
Air Five, Selah. 
I see through the same lens as you, take consolation, we’re not in the minority states but the United States. I too voted for Bush, I drank the evangelical Kool-Aid and suffered severe heart burn this year from it. I watched the neocons dis Huckabee, I witnessed the GOP implode upon itself with hate and devise divisive rhetoric. I found myself standing outside the cold church doors that have come to symbolize moral conservatism. Yes, a target of hate from the church itself. I see the likes of Tom push back on hope in America as if vertical hope should not be manifested horizontally. The plane of hope travels in both directions, as symbolized in the sign of the cross.
Post Edited (Truth Aficionado) : 11/7/2008 9:31:13 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 11/6/2008 1:02 PM (GMT -6) | | Dwayne: Lord...
Ok.
Ok...
I was relaying what happened to me as a child. MY experience...and how that shaped my self-understanding about what I could and couldn't achieve **as an African-American.** I, in no way, was saying that that bolded part...as if "blacks" were the only people to suffer under systemic oppression and structural evil. I would never say something that.
Brandon: Hmmm...see when I see that language "as an African-American" and reading your talk about why blacks have been celebrating everywhere (an event of eschatological proportions has occurred) combined with Greg's blog, one can't help but think that you think your experience is uniquely yours. The fact is that Obama is black. He's the first black president. That's history. He's also a Democrat. I don't think anything of substance is going to change with regard to how I think government ought to be. Fine. There's nothing really celebratory about making race an issue in the way that Greg has.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/6/2008 1:20 PM (GMT -6) | | Brandon said...
I agree with Tom that Obama being the first black person to become the President is an momentous event. Groovy. Peace. Love. All that. But I don't want this to be any bigger than it should be. What I hear from Dwayne is basically "group identity politics."
I glanced over this. As I'm re-reading this...I'm starting to get pissed off. Sounds like a form of minimization and invalidation to me by people of privilege.
How big should this be to me, Brandon?
I'm starting to get a little hot here. We'd better get some common ground here quick, yo.
...sigh...
strong ego-flare. I repent, Lord. But really, I DO want to get some understanding of what you are trying to say, Brandon. For real.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/6/2008 12:24:42 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/6/2008 1:33 PM (GMT -6) | | |
My original post spoke to the following:
"Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring—when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children—black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics—will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" --Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
The point of my first post was to celebrate the dream shared by many white men, many that have died, to finally see this day of equality. D, and blacks do not celebrate this time alone.
This day transcends beyond politics. Yes today really is a good day as many white men(too) truly hear the ring of freedom. Post Edited (Truth Aficionado) : 11/6/2008 12:40:31 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/6/2008 1:38 PM (GMT -6) | |
One Love said...Um, T.A. Do you think I disagree with what you are saying? Didn't I agree with what you posted earlier, talking about all the varieties of people in the struggle? (Yes) Are you hearing me say something different?
No D,
I'm with ya' | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/6/2008 3:20 PM (GMT -6) | | T.A.:
In light of Obama overcoming racial barriers, do you think the type of anger you described will now subside in the black community? Real Talk.
It will take long, sensitive conversation and understanding on all sides dealing with any kind of divides dealing with systemic oppression and internalized hatred. And not trying to prescribe fixes for problems before truly understanding perspectives. And that's for starters.
Lord, let your Spirit reign here. Tear down barriers...
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/6/2008 9:17 PM (GMT -6) | | |
Tom: Are you being an asshole intentionally or accidentally?
I plead the fifth?
Post Edited (Truth Aficionado) : 11/7/2008 8:55:24 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Asher
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 477
| Posted 11/6/2008 11:23 PM (GMT -6) | | Dwayne,
I don't know you like Tom, but I have read everything you have written on this board in the past five years, everything. I have downloaded and listened to your sermons at Woodland Hills. I have shared in your struggles in my thoughts and in my prayers. As an open theist and outside the box theologian living in Kentucky surrounded by very traditional, fundamentalist type Christians, I found a refuge on this board, and you are a huge part of this board. Even though my time to write much on the board is limited by how much I work, just reading the board and thinking about the things written here have helped me through some tough times. So, no, I don't know you personally, but we can't really say that I don't know you, right? Even so, you adamantly declare you aren't conflating the Kingdom of God and American politics, I'll just have to take your word for it. We'll say I was wrong because I don't know you in the flesh. But, does it give you any pause that it looked that way to me? And secondly, even if you aren't fusing religion and politics, does it give you any pause that some Obama supporters may be?
You scoured the web to find anything negative about Sarah Palin. Let's put those same skills to work on this issue, now that Palin is a non-factor, oh, wait..."Not by far, buddy. She's got a lot to answer for back in Alaska...now that people know about her."
Anyways...here's a few links to get you started:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAlrSRVdKZY
http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/05/messianic_obama.html
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/EvangelicalsforObama864?page=1
http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2008/02/i-dont-know-how-to-love-him.html
and the ubiquitous wikipedia entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Personality
Here is the pertinent portions:
A cult of personality or personality cult arises when a country's leader uses mass media to create a heroic public image through unquestioning flattery and praise. Cults of personality are often found in dictatorships.
A cult of personality is similar to general hero worship except that it is created specifically for political leaders. However, the term may be applied by analogy to refer to adulation of religious or non-political leaders.
Generally, personality cults are most common in regimes with totalitarian systems of government, that seek to radically alter or transform society according to revolutionary new ideas. Often, a single leader becomes associated with this revolutionary transformation, and comes to be treated as a benevolent "guide" for the nation, without whom the transformation to a better future cannot occur.
Do you see it, or not? Google Obama and messiah together. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted Yesterday 12:31 AM (GMT -6) | | Asher:
But, does it give you any pause that it looked that way to me?
Help me see what made it "look" this way to you. I've looked back over this whole thread to see what I've said to give any indication that I was conflating Obama directly with some kind of messianic hope. (Honestly, my thoughts couldn't be further from such a thing, imo) And I do not see it. If anything, I've primarily thought about MLK's Dream, the struggle for the realization of American ideals and values...and what Obama's election meant with respect to that. But it seems that my communications made you think of something else. So, since you've had such exposure to me, this should be helpful to explain what you see to me.
***************************
Asher:
Do you see it, or not? Google Obama and messiah together.
Do I see the "cult of personality" thing? Heck, yeah. It's been talked about time and again. He's joked himself about being likened unto "Superman", the "Messiah", and the "One". I don't agree with blind adoration for any person, let alone a politician...and I believe that there are plenty of Americans that feel the same way. From what I see, people are gonna be watching Obama like a hawk for one reason or another...and so much the better. And we will be able to hold our new President-Elect accountable should he attempt to be some kind of "dictator". We've had enough of that. 
But on the real, Asher...did you really think that I fell into this category or something? That's what I wanna know...
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/6/2008 11:45:19 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted Yesterday 12:32 AM (GMT -6) | | Obama worship is a typical case of civil religion. New look, same game.
Massive military spending planned (all the while quoting MLK)? Check.
Support of Israeli terrorism? Check.
Use of nukes as leverage? Check.
Outspend/advertise as a campaign strategy? Check.
Support NCLB? Check.
Distance self from friends who become political liabilities? Check.
Euphemize the Bush war crimes into poor judgment? Check.
Seems like he's a nice guy. Doesn't change the fact that he's the next king of Babylon. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted Yesterday 1:09 AM (GMT -6) | | I'm looking at this Evangelicals for Obama page...and some of the prayers on here. Some of them were pretty party oriented...but I really liked this one. I want to take and personalize this one. Wherever it originally said "you", I will put "me" and all that...
--------------------------------------
May God bless me with discomfort
At easy answers, half-truths, and superficial relationships
So that I may live deep within my heart.
May God bless me with anger
At injustice, oppression, and exploitation of people,
So that I may work for justice, freedom and peace.
May God bless me with tears
To shed for those who suffer pain, rejection, hunger and war,
So that I may reach out your hand to comfort them and
To turn their pain into joy.
And may God bless me with enough foolishness
To believe that I can make a difference in the world,
So that I can do what others claim cannot be done
To bring justice and kindness to all our children and the poor.
Amen.
--------------------------
Fo' sho.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted Yesterday 1:15 AM (GMT -6) | | "Perhaps she should be called Faith — what's left when all earthly hope has gone."
Oooh. I like that.
And that Faith is "energized" by what again? Love, the Ground of the eternal hope.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." | | Back to Top | | |
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