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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 11/11/2008 9:35 AM (GMT -6) |   | D: Does all this make sense?
selah: ABSOLUTELY!!!! I totally and completely agree with you. I preach this all the time in counseling and i try to live it out in my life. Totally saves me too...more than you know.
Loved the poem and I appreciated the dream. God IS good isn't he? :-) I wonder what he has in store for you next, D.
One Love said...
Selah:
MFT perspective...seriously love this thought though d.</FONT>
I really do think it's true, Selah. Aki and I were going through certain problems early in our marriage because of our self-idolatry and idolatry of the spouse. We actually fell into the belief that "each other" was the source of love, empowerment, and presence. We dysfunctionally met each others egoic (earthly) needs...and we, unknowingly, made straight up IDOLS out of each other and our marriage. Thus we fell into despairing FEAR of losing each other...because we felt the annihilation of the one was functionally the "death" of the other. Fear turned to anger, in subtle and not so subtle ways. That lead straight to egoic behaviors that began to sever the relationship. I remember that we came to this conclusion at the same time (God woke us up!)...and we repented before God. She then wrote this poem...
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Bound
There is a time in our life when we are prepared
To meet a person and common interests are shared.
It is fun, you feel free,
Your heart filled with glee
Until your connection is not what you believed.
You thought at the height of unconditional amorous expression
that there could not be any other lesson.
The lesson of loss becomes your worry
You realize the time could elapse in a hurry.
The separation of two having fun…
the possible ways in your mind, you begin to shun
gripping fear makes you both want to run.
The original loneliness was not bad
It was only your imagination of love that you had.
The personal manifestation of your dreams
Whatever she or he may be
when lost could result in a perpetual inner scream.
Your mind left behind
tears wearing away at your cheeks over time.
An untimely death you do not want to decline.
Oh Lord, save us from this self-destruction
we did not discern the no idol instruction.
Our earthly joys
Along with ourselves destroyed
We did not intend this overwhelming passion within
for our corporeal wife or mortal husband.
Aki Hughes-Polk
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"When one has once fully entered the realm of love, the world — no matter how imperfect — becomes rich and beautiful, it consists solely of opportunities for love."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/11/2008 11:55 AM (GMT -6) | | |
I too can attest to this life saving lesson on the idolatry of selfish love. To turn inwards towards self instead of upwards towards God. To be cognizant of this humbling truth leads to a routine of repenting, continually progressing the condition of the heart, correctively pursuing right alignment with God.
I don’t think enough is said about this crucial topic, it could be helpful in saving many marriages, families, suicide prevention, overcoming chemical dependencies, and essentially, free Christians of much self induced despair. Post Edited (Truth Aficionado) : 11/11/2008 10:58:57 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 11/11/2008 12:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Corey: The term “identity” is more subjective, whereas “ontology” (or should I say “nature”?) is objective….
Tom: This is where ‘relational’ philosophies and theologies really ask us to make a paradigm shift. I was on the ‘relational’ bandwagon for a long time but still trying to fit the insights inside the old Aristotelian ‘substance’ metaphysic. But the whole substance metaphysic has to go. Aristotle (et. al.) viewed ‘relations’ as accidents to ‘essence’. Just notice how little Aristotle has to say about ‘relations’. Not much. Contrary to this, relational theologians and philosophers say relations constitute the essence of things so that one can never speak of what is, or of what exists (of objective ontology that is) without speaking of how it relates to other existents, and that means ‘subjectivity’.
So ‘subjectivity’—this is gonna sound weird—is the only objectivity there is. All is ‘subject’. All there is are ‘subjects’ of experience relating to other subjects of experience. What we call ‘objective’ truth or objective reality is just some subject’s abstraction of its experience of other subjects of experience. Of course, God’s scope of experience is all-encompassing, so the truth about objective reality is just God’s thoughts on the matter! So, in a relational ontology , identity has ontological priority over nature. Nature becomes the ‘tropos’, the ‘how’, the ‘ways in which’ subjects dispose of their identities. But identity is more fundamental.
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Tom: Dang. I'm good! Ha! I still agree with this. Yep.
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/11/2008 12:19 PM (GMT -6) | | T.A:
I too can attest to this life saving lesson on the idolatry of selfish love. To turn inwards towards self instead of upwards towards God. To be cognizant of this humbling truth leads to a routine of repenting, continually progressing the condition of the heart, correctively pursuing right alignment with God.
I don’t think enough is said about this crucial topic, it could be helpful in saving many marriages, families, suicide prevention, overcoming chemical dependencies, and essentially, free Christians of much self induced despair.
Amen, sir.
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Tom:
Dang. I'm good! Ha! I still agree with this. Yep.
You da best, homie! 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 4:46 AM (GMT -6) | | |
Corey: The term “identity” is more subjective, whereas “ontology” (or should I say “nature”?) is objective….
Tom: This is where ‘relational’ philosophies and theologies really ask us to make a paradigm shift. I was on the ‘relational’ bandwagon for a long time but still trying to fit the insights inside the old Aristotelian ‘substance’ metaphysic. But the whole substance metaphysic has to go. Aristotle (et. al.) viewed ‘relations’ as accidents to ‘essence’. Just notice how little Aristotle has to say about ‘relations’. Not much. Contrary to this, relational theologians and philosophers say relations constitute the essence of things so that one can never speak of what is, or of what exists (of objective ontology that is) without speaking of how it relates to other existents, and that means ‘subjectivity’.
So ‘subjectivity’—this is gonna sound weird—is the only objectivity there is. All is ‘subject’. All there is are ‘subjects’ of experience relating to other subjects of experience. What we call ‘objective’ truth or objective reality is just some subject’s abstraction of its experience of other subjects of experience. Of course, God’s scope of experience is all-encompassing, so the truth about objective reality is just God’s thoughts on the matter! So, in a relational ontology , identity has ontological priority over nature. Nature becomes the ‘tropos’, the ‘how’, the ‘ways in which’ subjects dispose of their identities. But identity is more fundamental.
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Updated reposts from another thread...
The Holy Spirit of God (The Father's Spirit) is the Father's dispositional "personal power" to know, see, and love Himself in the Son, the Father's Perfect Image. The Holy Spirit is the ground for God's Triune Self-Knowledge. The Holy Spirit is the Father's power for self-experience and the ground for God's Triune self-willing/choosing and self-knowledge/understanding...and the Trinity is that "power's" eternal exercise. (Creation, I believe, is God's contingent expression of this eternal exercise of self-perceiving, self-choosing, self-communion, where God "knows, sees, and loves" Godself in a new way: created personal beings.) And when we participate in Grace (God's Empowering Presence, the Spirit of the Holy One)...indwelling and being indwelt by Christ's Spirit...the Father loves His Image IN US and the Trinity exists in the redeemed human soul that is conformed to that image. We can have the "mind of Christ" as the very Self-Understanding of God "works" in us. Through this personal relationship betweeen Creator and created being, The Father "knows" us as his creaturely Children...and we "know" the Father as truly our Heavenly Father...in Christ, by the Spirit. The Indwelling, Omnipresent Power of the Holy Spirit unifies the Knower (the Holy One) and the Known (his created "Temple", Creation ) in eternal, inseperable UNION of Love.
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Tom:
God, I think, is fully realized personal being, the truest instantiation of personal being possible, and thus the truest lover possible.
One Love:
God is the "truest instantiation" of self-experience and self-relationship who EXEMPLIFIES the Great Commandments to an infinite degree: Loving God, loving "self", and loving the "other" as oneself. God does all three within God's own triune self among the three divine persons of the one divine being. (Remember the Shema.) Creation is an contingent expression of this uncreated "love fest", and the human being is a created personal other (the human being) to become BY GRACE what God is BY NATURE.
Moreover, what God is by nature and what we are made by Grace is brought about by SAME PERSON that enabled the Incarnation of the Father's Image: the ONE Holy Spirit of God that eternally "proceeds" from the Father and eternally "rests" in the Son.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 3:56:27 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 4:50 AM (GMT -6) | | | "...no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."*
* We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God's wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
"What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived—
these things God has prepared for those who love him"—
for God has revealed them to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except that person's own spirit within? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for,
"Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?"
But we have the mind of Christ.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 3:54:59 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 5:15 AM (GMT -6) | | | "Where's Waldo" time.
 Find the common theme(s).
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"As for me, this is my covenant with them," says the LORD. "My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever," says the LORD.
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"And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
*******************************
A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of might,
the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD—
and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
or decide by what he hears with his ears;
but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
Righteousness will be his belt
and faithfulness the sash around his waist.
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" 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
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"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful humanity to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in human flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind controlled by the sinful nature is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace. The sinful mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
You, however, are not controlled by the sinful nature but are in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.
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Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
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Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 4:40:55 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 5:21 AM (GMT -6) | | | Is all this lining up to you, Tom?
We are still talkin', right? 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 11/16/2008 6:15 AM (GMT -6) | | |
Tom: This is where ‘relational’ philosophies and theologies really ask us to make a paradigm shift. I was on the ‘relational’ bandwagon for a long time but still trying to fit the insights inside the old Aristotelian ‘substance’ metaphysic. But the whole substance metaphysic has to go. Aristotle (et. al.) viewed ‘relations’ as accidents to ‘essence’. Just notice how little Aristotle has to say about ‘relations’. Not much. Contrary to this, relational theologians and philosophers say relations constitute the essence of things so that one can never speak of what is, or of what exists (of objective ontology that is) without speaking of how it relates to other existents, and that means ‘subjectivity’.
Jeff: I don't follow. How is it that IF "one can never speak of what is, or of what exists, without speaking of how it relates to other existents" that ALL those relations are necessarily the ESSENCE of things? Why can't some of these relations be accidental even if they are relations? IOW, I would say that God has an essential attribute of a CAPACITY to be conscious. But His specific conscious states are ACCIDENTAL attributes. Why can this not be true in a relational metaphysic? Why are all relations ESSENCES of beings? If they are, we might as well dump the word "essence." For the meaning of "essence" is correlative with the meaning of "accidental." But without essence, properly conceived, wouldn't we lose "identity?"
Think about it. If all of God's states (which entail all of His relations) are ESSENTIAL to who He is, then God has no fixed essence (but isn't the idea of essence entail the idea of fixed, as opposed to transient of accidental?) For He has not yet experienced ALL of the conscious states He will ultimately experience. Thus, His essence changes with each NEW conscious state He experiences. Which is to say, God's essence is ever changing. It seems too wierd. I think this is because essential is CORRELATIVE with accidental. You must keep both or neither.
D: So ‘subjectivity’—this is gonna sound weird—is the only objectivity there is. All is ‘subject’. All there is are ‘subjects’ of experience relating to other subjects of experience. What we call ‘objective’ truth or objective reality is just some subject’s abstraction of its experience of other subjects of experience. Of course, God’s scope of experience is all-encompassing, so the truth about objective reality is just God’s thoughts on the matter! So, in a relational ontology , identity has ontological priority over nature. Nature becomes the ‘tropos’ , the ‘how’, the ‘ways in which’ subjects dispose of their identities. But identity is more fundamental.
Jeff: I would say that we INFER the experience of other subjects of experience. Cause we have to infer that the relation is one to another being as opposed to another thought object (which is an accidental attribute). Cause, like Neo, it is not necessary that my experience corresponds to an extra-ego reality at all. Also, I don't see how God's objectivity is different in kind to ours. Rather, I would say it is different in degree. Otherwise, we may BE like Neo in that we are the only other person than God, the "Matrix programmer," and all our experience is MERELY subjective since it doesn't correspond accurately to any REAL extra-ego beings. If the relations we infer/abstract with respect to OTHER BEINGS are REAL, then they are objective. That's how I think of it. I don't see why this accounting is incoherent. Nor was I aware that this is any different than what metaphysicians have been saying all along. It seems like a given that my perception of any other being requires my being related TO that being somehow. Otherwise, I couldn't apprehend it.
Post Edited (Similtude) : 11/16/2008 5:30:35 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 6:25 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff:
IOW, I would say that God has an essential attribute of a CAPACITY to be conscious. But His specific conscious states are ACCIDENTAL attributes. Why can this not be true in a relational metaphysic?
Tell me does the following fit at all, Jeff...a repost...
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Let's try something...
Background. Long story short. According to Doc's Trinity and Process, (page 113) there are two types of dispositions: definitional and constitutive. Definitional dispositions are those that defines a things "essence", ie. those aspects without which it couldn't be itself. Constitutive dispositions are those that a thing can possess, but not as inherent to what it means to be that thing. In other words, a existent could either possess or not possess a constitutive disposition with no fundamental change to its "essence". Not so with a definitional disposition.
Here goes nuthin...
Eckhart's "Deity" <=> Uncreated Consciousness eternally grounding the definitional disposition/capacity to be Divine Song/Dance of "I Am"
Eckhart's "Trinity" <=> Uncreated Consciousness eternally actualizing the definitional disposition/capacity to be Divine Song/Dance of "I Am"
And this Song/Dance of "I Am" is NOT actus purus...but is open to contingency. So....
Eckhart's "Creation" <=> Uncreated Consciousness continually actualizing the constitutional disposition/capacity to be Divine Song/Dance of "I Am...Immanuel"
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In other words, "Deity" is the CAPACITY, "Trinity" is the CAPACITY being eternally actualized, and "Creation" is a CONTINGENT EXPRESSION (accidental attribute?) of the eternal actualization of the capacity.
Make sense?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 5:30:30 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 6:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff:
Think about it. If all of God's states (which entail all of His relations) are ESSENTIAL to who He is, then God has no fixed essence (but isn't the idea of essence entail the idea of fixed, as opposed to transient of accidental?) For He has not yet experienced ALL of the conscious states He will ultimately experience. Thus, His essence changes with each NEW conscious state He experiences. Which is to say, God's essence is ever changing. It seems too wierd. I think this is because essential is CORRELATIVE with accidental. You must keep both or neither.
God's experience of God's own "essential existence" (Deity, Trinity) is unchanging. God's experience of God's own "contingent expression" (Creator/Creation relationship) IS changing. Both "essential" and "accidental" are kept, right?
Right along with the Essence/Energies distinction, to me...
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted 11/16/2008 6:37 AM (GMT -6) | | But that's just it. As I see things, the "Uncreated Consciousness" that grounds and sustains the "eternal process" of divine triune personal being AND the "continuing process" of created uni-versal personal being would be directly linked with the One, Omnipresent, Eternal, Holy Spirit of God. Only the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God, right?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 5:45:34 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 6:49 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff:
It doesn't make sense to me, D. Because it sounds like you're saying that consciousness can exist independently of a being. That makes no sense to me. Indeed, it is that very problem them makes materialists pull their hair out trying to conceive of how a SINGLE conscious state can be an accidental attribute inhering in kazillions of subatomic particles (BEINGS) collectively and systemically known as the brain. To my mind, a conscious state must inhere in a single being. It is the BEING which is conscious. The state of conscious refers to the particulars the being is conscious of, whether they be sentient qualia, imaginative constructs, memories or whatever.
As I see it, being and relation are correlative. And to my mind, "deity" can not be a capacity. Deity HAS capacities.
I'm not saying that consciousness can exist outside of a being. Who is the Grounding Person that we are talking about? God the Father, right? The "Source" and "Fount" of Deity. Now, how does the Father's SPIRIT relate to the Father? In talking to Greg, it's completely acceptable to say that the Father is primordial "dispositional actuality", with the dispositional reality of the Father being the Father's Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God.
The Father is inseparable (yet distinct) from His Spirit, and His Spirit grounds the Father's ability for SELF-KNOWLEDGE, SELF-REVELATION, and SELF-MANIFESTATION. That's Scriptural, right?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 5:55:01 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 6:57 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff:
Jeff: I'm not sure what "dispositional actuality" means. If it means that a capacity is actualizing something, then I guess I get it. But then I don't know what it means to say the Father IS primordial capacity actualizing. I would say the Father HAS a capacity. And He IS activating said capacity. But I wouldn't say the Father IS actualizing capacity. The Father is the BEING who has as one essential attribute the CAPACITY to actualize other beings/events.
Ok. What is the "capacity of actualizing other beings/events" that the Father has...but the Father's Spirit?
Think about it.
"Not by might, nor by power, but by...."
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 6:01:09 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 11/16/2008 7:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Maybe this can help.
God IS Spirit. But how many "spirits" does God have?
One...not three, right?
As James Loder said, "God IS Spirit and God HAS Spirit"
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 7:06 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff:
D: As James Loder said, "God IS Spirit and God HAS Spirit"
Jeff: Yes, and I would say the same is true of us. We ARE spirit and we HAVE a spirit. We are spirit in the sense that we are not MATERIAL. But we HAVE an actual entity which is A spirit that capacitates us.
Uh huh. And the two are related, obviously. You are transcendent of the corporeal sphere BECAUSE you have A spirit...and the spirit within you is the "agency of transcendence" that grounds and effects your "spiritual" transcendence (and SPIRITUALIZATION) of the body.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/16/2008 6:09:11 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/16/2008 7:07 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff:
I may need to check Loder's book out. Sounds interesting! <G>
Jeff. It's been nothing short of life-transforming to me. Get it. Get it. Get it.
And Loder's "The Transforming Moment" too. MAN! The guy was a friggin interdisciplinary genius.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." | | Back to Top | | |
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