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PotOnWheel
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| Posted Yesterday 6:23 PM (GMT -6) |   | |
Come Receive the Light
| Understanding Buddhism & Answering Listeners' Questions |
| Written by Fr. Alexander Goussetis |
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 Fr. Alexander Goussetis, author of "Encountering World Religions: An Orthodox Christian Perspective," talks with Fr. Chris about Buddhism. Also, Dr. Elizabeth Prodromou, a professor at Boston University, answers questions about Orthodoxy sent in from listeners around the country.
Listen Now (Real Audio) or Listen Now (mp3)!
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One Love
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| Posted Today 9:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Hmmmm...
I liked it, but I found some of the information to be incomplete. It seems that the speaker was only dealing with a certain type of Buddhism...and didn't touch some very important concepts BEYOND the 4 Noble Truths...like...
Brahmavihara
Mahayana Buddhists believe that Ultimate Reality is "Lovingkindness" ...
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- Metta/Maitri: loving-kindness towards all; the hope that a person will be well; loving kindness is "the wish that all sentient beings, without any exception, be happy."[3]
- Karuna: compassion; the hope that a person's sufferings will diminish; compassion is the "wish for all sentient beings to be free from suffering."[4]
- Mudita: altruistic joy in the accomplishments of a person, oneself or other; sympathetic joy, "is the wholesome attitude of rejoicing in the happiness and virtues of all sentient beings."[5]
- Upekkha/Upeksha: equanimity, or learning to accept both loss and gain, praise and blame, success and failure with detachment, equally, for oneself and for others; equanimity means "not to distinguish between friend, enemy or stranger, but regard every sentient being as equal. It is a clear-minded tranquil state of mind - not being overpowered by delusions, mental dullness or agitation."[6]
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In the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, the Buddha teaches that the Brahmaviharā are characteristic qualities of the Buddha-dhatu (Buddha-nature or Buddha-Principle, the all-pervading essence of the Buddha). He states:
“Great Benevolence [or “Loving-kindness”] and Great Compassion are the Buddha-dhatu. Great Sympathetic Joy and Great Equanimity are the Buddha-dhatu. The Buddha-dhatu is at once the Tathagata"[9]
Shakyamuni Buddha identifies the consummate Brahmaviharic qualities as nondifferent to moksha (Sanskrit) and nirvana (Sanskrit):
“The Tathagata is Benevolence, Compassion, Sympathetic Joy, and Equanimity. Benevolence, Compassion, Sympathetic Joy, and Equanimity are Liberation [moksha]. Liberation is Nirvana, and Nirvana is Benevolence, Compassion, Sympathetic Joy, and Equanimity.”[10]
In the Mahaparinirvana Sutra (as in other Mahayana sutras), a central place is accorded to the Brahmaviharas of benevolence and compassion. Benevolence/ friendliness/ loving-kindness (maitri) is especially viewed in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra as the root of all good qualities, the very heart and inner soul (atman) of what the Buddha and Mahayana ultimately are. Shakyamuni Buddha states:
“All the roots of goodness of all … Bodhisattvas and all Tathagatas have as their foundation Loving-kindness (maitri)… If any person asks about the root of any aspect of good, say that it is Loving-kindness … Loving-kindness is Mahayana. Mahayana is Loving-kindness. Loving-kindness is the Tathagata. The Tathagata is Loving-kindness … Loving-kindness is the Buddha-dhatu of all beings…. Loving-kindness is the Self. The Self is Dharma. Dharma is the Sangha. The Sangha is Loving-kindness. Loving-kindness is the Tathagata…. Loving-kindness is the Immortal (amrta). The Immortal is Loving-kindness…. Loving-kindness is the Supreme Way of all Bodhisattvas. The Way is Loving-kindness. Loving-kindness is the Tathagata …. Loving-kindness is the limitless world of the Blessed Buddha. The limitless world is Loving-kindness. Know that Loving-kindness is the Tathagata.”
Now if he were to talk about how this concept may have points of similiarity with the "God is Love" concept we see in Christianity, Christian apatheia (detachment from passions), and how we believe that Christ-the-Logos is "all virtue". Now that would be very interesting. 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/8/2008 8:10:53 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted Today 9:25 AM (GMT -6) | | From here...
The scripture further presents itself as providing the correct understanding of earlier Buddhist teachings, such as those on non-Self and Emptiness: "non-Self" in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra refers to the impermanent, mundane, skandha-constructed ego, whose seeming reality is called by the Buddha "a lie" (in contrast to the true supramundane Selfhood of the Buddha), while "Emptiness" (shunyata) is explicated as meaning empty of that which is compounded, painful, and impermanent (Mahaparinirvana Sutra, op.cit., Vol. 2, pp. 30-31; Buddha-Self by Dr. Tony Page, Nirvana Publications, London, 2003, Vol. 2, p. 70). The Buddha, in the Fa-xian version of the text, points out that worldly beings who misapprehend the authentic Buddhist Doctrine "... have the notion that there is no Self, and are unable to know the True Self." (Buddha-Self, op.cit. Vol. 1, p. 53). This True Self, of course, is not the suffering-prone and hapless clinging ego - not the conditioned and transitory "self" which unawakened persons clutch at as their identity - but the Self-which-signifies-Buddha: all-knowing and all-pure Ultimate Reality, unconstrained by the limitations and illusions of samsara. This Self of the Buddha is the source of ever-enduring life. The Buddha is likened to a great sea, whose expanse and longevity cannot be measured: "All the great rivers of life of all people, of the gods, the earth and the sky drain into the Tathagata's sea of life. Hence, the length of life of the Tathagata is uncountable." (Mahayanism: A Critical Exposition of the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra by Kosho Yamamoto, The Karinbunko, Tokyo, 1975, p. 61).
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I would submit that the "ego" spoken of here is like unto the "ego periphery/prosopon/despairing self" that we've talked about elsewhere...and the "True Self" spoken of here is like unto the bi-polar assymetrical relational unity with the "Divine Center/Uncreated Divine Presence/The Logos" (See HERE for the discussion)
Can y'all see how I would see all this? Tom, do you see what I'm saying? 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/8/2008 8:34:11 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted Today 9:39 AM (GMT -6) | | From here...
Example of Aggregate-Clinging
To give a simplistic example, if one believes "this body is mine" or "I exist within this body," then as their body ages, becomes ill and approaches death, such a person will likely experience longing for youth or health or eternal life, will likely dread aging and sickness and death, and will likely spend much time and energy lost in fears, fantasies and ultimately futile activities.
In the Nikayas, such is likened to shooting oneself with a second arrow, where the first arrow is a physical phenomenon (such as, in this case, a bodily manifestation associated with aging or illness or dying) and the second is the mental anguish of the undisciplined mind associated with the physical phenomenon (see the Sallatha Sutta[32]).
On the other hand, one with a disciplined mind who is able to see this body as a set of aggregates will be free of such fear, frustration and time-consuming escapism.
This deals with the pain inherent in "having one's treasure" in earthly things that can perish (the seen, realm of the ego) rather than in heavenly things that cannot. (the unseen, realm of Metta) By breaking free of "nature", (thinking of oneself as MORE THAN just the sensible) one is free to live IN the world while not OF the world.
Sound familiar?
Could the Buddhist "disciplined mind" that sees reality as it is...analogous to Christian "nepsis" ?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/8/2008 8:43:37 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted Today 9:48 AM (GMT -6) | | Seriously though...
certain mystical strains of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam ALL come to the same conclusion...
Ultimate Reality is Love.
Is that not enough to build some serious interfaith discussion around?
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Bhakti in Hinduism
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The forces that cause creation sustain and maintain that which has become created and eventually cause the destruction of that which was created – named Brahman, by the Upanishads – permeate everything in the Creation. Brahman is the self creating force that is in all that has a name and form as well as that which remains formless and nameless.
The Bhagavata Purana describes three different levels of Brahman realisation. The first is an impersonal state of blissful consciousness, similar to nirvana where one is aware of the great universal Brahman effulgence permeating everything; the second is classified as Paramatma realisation, wherein one is actually able to see the Form of Godhead alongside one's own soul (atma); the third and ultimate realisation is described as Bhagavan, in this state one has a direct loving relationship with The Supreme Personality of Godhead himself, in one or more of His transcendental forms.
The main difference between bhakti philosophy and all others is that the goal is also the means of attaining the goal. In other words, bhakti, devotional service to the Supreme, is attained by engaging in devotional service to the Supreme. The difference between the starting and concluding stages is that in the beginning the activity of bhakti is a forced engagement, whereas in the conclusion it is a spontaneous, loving reciprocation.
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Sufism
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While all Muslims believe that they are on the pathway to God and will become close to God in Paradise — after death and after the "Final Judgment" — Sufis believe as well that it is possible to draw closer to God and to more fully embrace the Divine Presence in this life. The chief aim of all Sufis is to seek the pleasure of God by working to restore within themselves the primordial state of fitra, described in the Qur'an and similar to the concept of Buddha nature. In this state nothing one does defies God, and all is undertaken by the single motivation of love of God. A secondary consequence of this is that the seeker may be led to abandon all notions of dualism or multiplicity, including a conception of an individual self, and to realize the Divine Unity.
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"God is Love. Whoever lives in love lives in God."
Surely, we AGREE more than we DISAGREE, at least on the belief of Ultimate Reality being Love.
Right? 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/8/2008 8:52:21 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted Today 9:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Hmmmm...
I wonder how many Evangelicals know this stuff? What do you think, Tom? How about the Orthodox, Bruce? Do many of them know this, as far as you can tell? Perhaps there are more connections than many people know...particularly in the mystical/esoteric traditions of each religion. I think Cutsinger's on to something...
Check this out.
Chapter 9:
Hesychia: An Orthodox Opening to Esoteric Ecumenism
James S. Cutsinger
Hayell, yeah, baby...
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/8/2008 8:59:06 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted Today 10:03 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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| Posted Today 10:22 AM (GMT -6) | | | Whoops. Forgot Mysticism in Judaism...Kabbalah...
Daat or Daas ("Knowledge", Hebrew: דעת 'daʕaθ) in Jewish mysticism, called Kabbalah, is the location (the mystical state) where all ten sephirot in the Tree of Life are united as one.
In Daat, all sefirot exist in their perfected state of infinite sharing. The three sephirot of the left column that would receive and conceal the Divine Light, instead share and reveal it. Since all sephirot radiate infinite self-giving Divine Light, it is no longer possible to distinguish one sefira from another. Thus they are one.
Properly, the Divine Light is always shining, but not all humans can see it. The concealment or revelation of the Divine Light shining through Daat does not actually happen in Daat itself. It only seems that way from the human perspective within Malkuth. The perception of change can only occur in Malkuth. Humans who become self-giving (ego transcendent)like the Light become able to see it, and for them the benefits of Daat's Light seem "revealed". However, humans who remain selfish (ego oriented) cannot see it, and for them its benefits seem "hidden".
Yeah...
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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One Love
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| Posted Today 10:44 AM (GMT -6) | | | Prakasa analogous to "Uncreated Light" ?
Any similiarities y'all see?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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Tom
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| Posted Today 10:58 AM (GMT -6) | | D: I would submit that the "ego" spoken of here is like unto the "ego periphery/prosopon/despairing self" that we've talked about elsewhere...
T: Not "prosopon." Don't follow Endokimov in assigning "prosopon" to the false self. Follow Zizzy in assigning it to the true self in relation to God.
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One Love
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| Posted Today 11:02 AM (GMT -6) | | D: I would submit that the "ego" spoken of here is like unto the "ego periphery/prosopon/despairing self" that we've talked about elsewhere...
T: Not "prosopon." Don't follow Endokimov in assigning "prosopon" to the false self. Follow Zizzy in assigning it to the true self in relation to God.
Well, like you said, it's the reality behind our terminology that counts...and I think we're pretty solid on that. But I'm interested. Why not use Endokimov's line of thinking? What's to be lost by doing so?
I think his language is good in that it has the "prosopon" as a kind of proto-personal center of consciousness as a NATURAL element of the human composition: the capacity and formation of the human ego process. There is a significant line of continuity between "prosopon" and "hypostasis", but also a discontinuity as "nature" is distinct/discontinuous from "person."
Feel me?
Quote...
Every human being possesses a rudimentary person, a psychological center of integration which makes the whole gravitate around the metaphysical Self, and constitutes self-awareness; this is the prosopon, a natural element of the human substance. By contrast, on a deeper level, while all are invited, few of the chosen succeed in becoming a hypostasis. The hypostasis is this advanced stage of the imago Dei (image of God), the organ and place of communion with God which confirms our theandric structure in the image of Christ. In the age to come, "we shall be like him," as St. John says (1 Jn 3:2)
A "proto-personal" human being would be like unto the "spiritually inert" or "merely existent" human being.
Page 83
"According to Zizioulas, human personhood, a person's being as imago dei, is present both in a disrupted fashion and as an unfulfilled tendency. This is the tragedy of human beings, namely, that as biological hypostases they tend towards personhood while necessarily remaining caught in their individuality as a result of their specific creaturely constutition. Hence, salvation must consist in an ontological deindividualization that actualizes their personhood. Although the individuality of human beings is conditioned by their biological constitution, salvific grace, which fashions them into persons, does not suspend their creaturely existence as such; since this is the necessary means through which the human person expresses itself in both its ecstatic and its hypostatic dimensions. The biological hypostasis is not simply identical with creaturely nature, but rather is merely its protological/postlapsarian mode of existence. This is why salvific grace can consist only in transforming perverted creaturely existence--perverted insofar as it individualizes human beings--into creaturely existence expressing their being as persons and their communal nature. This transpired paradigmatically in the incarnation."
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/8/2008 10:41:14 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted Today 12:08 PM (GMT -6) | | As I remember, D, Zizzy does not employ "prosopon" as you do. For him "prosopon" is the fully developed person in Christ. He argues that's the best way to view the development of "prosopon" historically. So what you have to gain is consistency with the history of the conversation. But there's wiggle room for how to best interpret the development of the terms of the conversation over time. You can decide for yourself if Zizzy better gets that. I think he does. But the point is I suppose that people who are "into" this whole discussion and its history are very particular about terms and vocabulary and they don't all agree. I'm gonna use "prosopon" differently. So you can't really say "We've said this and that about...'prosopon'." We haven't, not about "prosopon." You can use "prosopon" like Endokimov if you want once you define it as you want (and you have). I'll follow ya. But I won't use it that way myself because I agree with Zizzy that that's NOT the best way to understand the term historically.
No biggie.
Another reason. Paul says we'll see God "prosopon pros prosopon." And he can't mean "face to face" in the literal sense since God doesn't have a material face to speak of, and he can hardly mean by "prosopon" some lower, less-than-fully-developed capacity for personhood. He means (in context) that we shall perceive the real person, the real other to whom we relate and whom we know even as we're known. "Prosopon" is the end goal and thus best understood as "person" in the highest sense. Them's me thoughts. T Post Edited (Tom) : 11/8/2008 11:21:36 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted Today 6:49 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
Another reason. Paul says we'll see God "prosopon pros prosopon." And he can't mean "face to face" in the literal sense since God doesn't have a material face to speak of, and he can hardly mean by "prosopon" some lower, less-than-fully-developed capacity for personhood. He means (in context) that we shall perceive the real person, the real other to whom we relate and whom we know even as we're known. "Prosopon" is the end goal and thus best understood as "person" in the highest sense.
I hear ya with this. The scriptural piece. Good thoughts. I think that same reality is being reflected in both Z. and E. Let's see how we can work this...
The created "prosopon" [which, as I see it, is a natural human tendency in the human being towards self-relationality, which leads to ego development] ONLY has a fulfillment in divine "hypostasis" (This is what I see Z.'s "ecclesial hypostasis" as being)...and without that fulfillment, the created prosopon is NOT expressing full humanity... or genuine personhood. It has rudimentary self-relational activity, but is NOT a "self-as-spirit" (SK) The created prosopon is NOT enhypostasized...and remains trapped in the created order, linked to the "individual". It remains a proto-personal human being who merely exists and is in a state of spiritual inertia. If this were "The Matrix", the proto-personal human beings would be the "bluepills" or "coppertops"...while the truly personal human beings would be " redpills" However, when the created prosopon IS enhypostasized by divine hypostasis (in the "face-to-face" interaction within the human "heart" between the created spirit and the Uncreated Spirit), then the truly personal mode of existence is released in the created prosopon. This would be like unto moving in fulfillment from "image" to "likeness"...or keeping the Matrix analogy...moving from "bluepill" to "redpill". "...the Matrix cannot tell you who you are."
--Trinity to Neo, "The Matrix"Are we on the same page?
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/9/2008 10:06:27 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 11/9/2008 8:54 AM (GMT -6) | | | Love, as metaphysical grounding reality, is EVERYWHERE!
Turiya represents consciousness free from material influence. The idea is that consciousness, of which the atman is constituted, exists in our wakeful state of material experience, as it continues during sleep. In sleep we dream and experience the mental realm, whereas during our waking state the physical plane has more bearing on our lives.
Upon awakening from deep dreamless sleep, one remembers existing in that condition. This is evidenced by the common expression, 'I slept well!' One cannot remember something one has no experience of.
Thus, in deep sleep when intelligence is transformed by tamo guna, the self continues to exist, as it does when intelligence is transformed by rajo guna during the dream condition and during the wakeful condition when intellect is transformed by sattva guna. The self is independent of the body and mind. If the physical and mental realms were to shut down, the self would continue to exist. This we know from our experience in deep sleep. Realizing this involves entering the turiya.
The Bhagavata Purana, verse 11.15.16[3] describes Bhagavan as turiyakhye (the fourth), defined in the Bhagavad Gita, verse 7.3 as:[4]
"Within the material world the Lord appears as the three Visnus (gunas). The original form of the Lord is another form still. He is beyond material nature and thus known as the fourth."[5]
The Gaudiya Vedantins are interested in turyatitah gopala (Lord Gopala beyond fourth dimension, Gopala Tapani Upanishad 2.96). This is the fifth dimension in which one comes face to face with Gopala Krishna in Braj (Vraja Dhama), from adhoksaja to aprakrta, or from God consciousness to Krishna consciousness.
"The fourth dimension, turiya, is the ground of our existence and the goal of all transcendentalists. For the Vedanta philosophers it is perceived variously, either as undifferentiated consciousness or a relationship with the divine. Regarding the latter, Gaudiya Vedanta concludes that love is greater than ourselves, and it is the greatest aspect of God, one that he himself is motivated by. For them, the nondual consciousness of Vedanta philosophy is realized when we know that we do not belong to ourselves, what to speak of anything belonging to us. If there is any time at which we can accurately say that something belongs to us, it is when, having given ourselves in love to God, we can say that 'he is ours'."[6]
"This is the Krsna (Krishna) conception of Godhead, one in which God appears not as God, nor finite souls as finite souls. Both interrelate intimately as lover and beloved, Krsna and his gopis, beyond any sense of each others' ontological reality, yet beyond the material illusion as well. This dimension of love of Godhead is thus justifiably termed by the Gaudiya Vaisnavas as the fifth dimension, turiya-titah (turyatita or turyatitah), the dimension of the soul's Soul."[6]
The turyatita state of consciousness is reflected in the Sanskrit poem, the Gita Govinda by Jayadeva, and Jiva Gosvami elaborated on this state in the Sandarbhas.[7]
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There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to have meaningful interfaith dialogue.
None. 
"Namaste" to all!
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/9/2008 7:57:44 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 11/9/2008 8:59 AM (GMT -6) | | There is no real difference between a Christian mystic and a Hindu saint. Their sayings never clash. The messages of the saints are essentially the same. They have always been a call to men to discover the Wisdom of the Self or Atman.
--Sri Swami Sivananda, "The Glory of Saints"
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am." Post Edited (One Love) : 11/9/2008 8:03:36 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 11/9/2008 2:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Have A Talk With God
Stevie Wonder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQVeCxtuP14&feature=related
There are people who have let the problems of today
Lead them to conclude that for them life is not the way
But every problem has an answer and if yours you cannot find
You should talk it over to him
Hell give you peace of mind
When you feel your lifes too hard
Just go have a talk with God
Many of us feel we walk alone without a friend
Never communicating with the one who lives within
Forgetting all about the one who never ever lets you down
And you can talk to him anytime hes always around
When you feel your lifes too hard
Just go have a talk with God
Well hes the only free psychiatrist thats known throughout the world
For solving the problems of all men, women, little boys and girls
When you feel your lifes too hard
Just go have a talk with God
When you feel your lifes too hard
Just go have a talk with God
When your loads too much to bear
Just go talk to God he cares
I know he does
When you feel your lifes too hard
Just go have a talk with God
Thank-you
Thank-you very much
God Is Love.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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Truth Aficionado
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| Posted 11/12/2008 12:43 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 11/12/2008 10:58 PM (GMT -6) | | | It's a shame. The whole point is to look for the God within.
Not to look for another human to idolize. That was the Buddha's final lesson. Heh. 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
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