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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 5/11/2009 10:33 PM (GMT -6)

The Advent of the Holy Spirit

Yeah...

This Advent of the Holy Spirit renews us in the desire for silence and separation from the world. The Mother of Jesus and the Apostles sequestered themselves in the Cenacle. They withdrew to a place apart. Each of us is called, according to his state in life, to separation from the world. During these days preceding Pentecost, one must, in some way, find concrete gestures to make the retreat of the Cenacle real. It is useless to speak in vague and idealistic terms of silence and separation from the world, if our actions and choices belie our pious discourse. For one it will be a resolute “No” to the television, to videos, and to an inordinate use of the internet. For another it will be abstinence from reading those things in newspapers and magazines that excite curiosity and leave troubling impressions on the soul. For yet another it will be a more generous application to that costly outward silence that is the price of inward silence.

Silence is the language of Heaven...

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."

"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian." -James Fowler

Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 5/12/2009 2:21 AM (GMT -6)

I can really appreciate the value and discipline of silence. And I can also appreciate the fact that there are and will be times when silence really is the only appropriate response to an encounter with God. I don’t think silence is the “language of heaven.” It’s kinda funny I mean. In all of Revelation there’s only one reference (8.1) to “silence” in heaven, and it only lasted half an hour. The rest of the book characterizes heaven, and the presence of the saints in heaven, as more like the Chatter Box Café—singing, shouting, talking, praising. Is this not the language of heaven as well?

Are you assuming, D, that since we’ll experience God directly and will escape the need for ‘maps’ that we’ll also escape the need for language entirely?

T

One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 5/12/2009 12:11 PM (GMT -6)

From the book...

Just as it is possible to live in the city and yet be a hesyschast, so that there are some whose duty it is to be constantly talking and who yet are silent inwardly. In the words of Abba Poeman,"One person appears to be keeing silent and yet condemns others in his heart; such a person is speaking all the time. Another person talks from morning till evening and yet keeps silent; that is, he says nothing except what is helpful to others." This applies exactly to the position of startsi such as St. Seraphim of Sarov and the spiritual fathers of Optino in nineteenth-century Russia; compelled by their vocation to receive an unending stream of visitors--dozens and even hundreds in a single day--they did not thereby forfeit their inner hesychia. Indeed, it was presicely because of their inner hesychia that they were enabled to act as guides to others. (OL's Note: The energy of detachment/equanimity/apatheia/dispassion) The words that they spoke to each visitor were words of power because they were word that came out of silence.

In one of his answers, Johon of Gaza made a clear distinction between inner and outer silence. A brother living in community, who found his duties as monastic carpener a cause of disturbance and distration, asked whether he should become a hermit and "practice the silence of which the Fathers speak." John did not agree to this. "Like most people," he replied, "you don not understand what is meant by the silence of which the Fathers speak. Silence does not consist in keeping your mouth shut. One person may speak ten thousand useful words, and it is counted as silence; another speaks a single unneccesary word, and it is counted as a breach of the Lord's commandment, 'You shall give account in the day of judgement for every idle word that comes out of yout mouth' (Mt 12:22)

Read the rest, if you want...

How about this for a corrollary...

Whatever is not of faith is sin. Period. turn

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."

Post Edited (One Love) : 5/12/2009 12:26:47 PM (GMT-5)

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 5/12/2009 2:31 PM (GMT -6)

Hmmm...what if we flipped that last part?

Whatever is of faith is not sin.

Christian freedom. Everything done before God's Presence in His Creation, always empowered by God's Spirit. Love for God and his Creation (us). Everything enjoyed with thanksgiving and praise.

We give "ourselves" to God (self-emptying), God gives himself to us (Holy Spirit indwelling). Over and over again. Our kenosis becomes our plerosis, because of Christ.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."

Post Edited (One Love) : 5/12/2009 2:40:11 PM (GMT-5)

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 5/12/2009 2:37 PM (GMT -6)

Hey there, tiger...

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 5/12/2009 11:30 PM (GMT -6)

So, silence doesn't mean silence. It's really a certain kind of speaking?

Talk about rewriting map legends!

That's cool.

T

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 5/14/2009 5:03 AM (GMT -6)

D, check out Fowler’s chart here (http://www.christinyou.net/pdfs/unityof3onenesses.pdf) and notice on the far right column where he puts panentheism. Ha! I had to laugh.

Tom

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 5/14/2009 10:08 AM (GMT -6)

Hmmm...

Fowler doesn't appear consider Grace to be God Himself working in Creation, but only God's activity in Creation. (See here)

That would explain how he doesn't fully grasp EO panentheism or its implications. He does give props to the EO's view of theosis to a good extent, though. Besides that, his stuff is bangin'...

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."

Post Edited (One Love) : 5/14/2009 10:11:50 AM (GMT-5)

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 5/14/2009 10:32 AM (GMT -6)

What would the difference even be between "God himself working in creation" and "God's activity in creation"? I don't see the slightest possible difference between these. "God himself working" isn't one and the same as "God's activity"?

T

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 5/21/2009 1:50 AM (GMT -6)

Didn't mean to let this drop...

Tom:
What would the difference even be between "God himself working in creation" and "God's activity in creation"? I don't see the slightest possible difference between these. "God himself working" isn't one and the same as "God's activity"?

Well, I think that Fowler may. For one, Fowler doesn't seem to consider creation as grace (he says this)...and I would disagree with that.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."

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