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Similitude
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| Posted 6/13/2009 7:33 PM (GMT -6) |   | |
Psychology: Don't think about it, and you probably won't do it!
by Denyse O'Leary
ARN correspondent
This one should be fun for students and parents: In a New Yorker article titled admirably simply, "Don't!" The secret of self-control, Jonah Lehrer reflects on what investigators have learned about how children develop self-control:
At the time, psychologists assumed that children's ability to wait depended on how badly they wanted the marshmallow. But it soon became obvious that every child craved the extra treat. What, then, determined self-control? Mischel's conclusion, based on hundreds of hours of observation, was that the crucial skill was the "strategic allocation of attention."
In other words, focus of attention.
Instead of getting obsessed with the marshmallow - the "hot stimulus" - the patient children distracted themselves by covering their eyes, pretending to play hide-and-seek underneath the desk, or singing songs from "Sesame Street." Their desire wasn't defeated - it was merely forgotten. "If you're thinking about the marshmallow and how delicious it is, then you're going to eat it," Mischel says. "The key is to avoid thinking about it in the first place."
In adults, this skill is often referred to as metacognition, or thinking about thinking, and it's what allows people to outsmart their shortcomings. ... Mischel's large data set from various studies allowed him to see that children with a more accurate understanding of the workings of self-control were better able to delay gratification. "What's interesting about four-year-olds is that they're just figuring out the rules of thinking," Mischel says. "The kids who couldn't delay would often have the rules backwards. They would think that the best way to resist the marshmallow is to stare right at it, to keep a close eye on the goal. But that's a terrible idea. If you do that, you're going to ring the bell before I leave the room."
Jeff: Mischel observed for hours to come to this conclusion. But I think a bit of reflection will show that free-will can not be coherently explained any other way than by "strategic allocation of attention." We are not radically free. We are free to give impetus to extant, natural desires by allocating our attention in certain ways.
Zach has made the point that we are free to become what we want. That is not completely true, IMO. We are free to harden our heart or desensitize ourselves by strategic allocation of attention, true. But we can not, in one choice, move from a relatively sensitized person to a completely de-sensitized person. Those transitions have to happen with some degree of gradualism, because what is involved in that transition is the changing of the material brain itself, the organization of which constitutes conditions for our various sentient states. And we can not voluntarily act DIRECTLY on the organization of the brain. But God HAS NO BRAIN. Moreover, even if created spirits with no brains (e.g., angels) can volitionally become malfunctional, that seems to have to do with the fact that they can volitionally affect their apprehension of reality. And they may not have our range of sensibilities in the first place. Thus, we have no reason to believe that whatever grounds God's sensibilities (which I think is the Spirit) will EVER change unless we know that He can be deceived.
So, it seems to me that the only analogies we have for volitional beings becoming desensitized or malfunctional are cases where changes in sentient states are due to either material changes in brains/nervous systems (in the case of souls) or by deception/or misapprehension (in the case of spirits and souls). So apart from saying that God is known to be corruptible by APRIORI knowledge, I don't see how we can know APOSTERIORI that God is corruptible unless we can know APOSTERIORI that He is capable of being decieved as to what is TRUE. And I think that the more common conceptions of God as righteous judge of the world entail the notion that He simply IS perfectly aware of all relations and events that have to do with right-relating or wrong-relating.
IOW, the minute we conceive of God as being capable of being deceived or mis-prehending, He immediately ceases to hold that relation to our non-relativistic, normative thought which renders it coherent and intelligible. So we either hold to that conception of God that truly grounds the logical consistency of normative thought, or we give up on the coherence or intelligibility of our own non-relativistic, normative thought/language. But the real question is, can anyone REALLY consistently live a life without making NON-RELATIVISTIC, normative judgments? Personally, I don't think that's even possbile.
Thus, as far as I can tell, to live non-hypocritically, we must embrace non-relativistic normativity with all the metaphysical implications and entailments it involves. At that point, we must judge. But we must be fully persuaded in our judgment. For anything not of faith is sin--including judging others concerning that which we are not fully persuaded about. But being persuaded of a thing is not the same thing as finding satisfaction in a thing. The criteria for the former is intellectual, whereas the criteria for the latter is sentient. The two can not be resolved into one without annulling the law of non-contradiction itself. For it is the law of non-contradiction that forces us to have to CHOOSE between the MUTUALLY-EXCLUSIVE satisfactions of competing desires via the STRATEGIC ALlocation OF ATTENTION. IOW, if the LNC is not valid, what could it possibly mean for desires or the satiating of desires to be "mutually-exclusive?"
Post Edited (Similtude) : 6/13/2009 11:06:38 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 6/14/2009 12:58 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeff: So, it seems to me that the only analogies we have for volitional beings becoming desensitized or malfunctional are cases where changes in sentient states are due to either material changes in brains/nervous systems (in the case of souls) or by deception/or misapprehension (in the case of spirits and souls). So apart from saying that God is known to be corruptible by APRIORI knowledge, I don't see how we can know APOSTERIORI that God is corruptible unless we can know APOSTERIORI that He is capable of being decieved as to what is TRUE. And I think that the more common conceptions of God as righteous judge of the world entail the notion that He simply IS perfectly aware of all relations and events that have to do with right-relating or wrong-relating.
Tom: I think you're right--necessary omnibenevolence is a function of necessary omniscience. But I thought you qualified the latter so that there were aspects about the future God either could not or choose not to know. But wouldn't any gap in knowledge translate into a possibility of a lapse in character? So are you back on board with unqualified omniscience: God ehaustively and infallibly apprehends all actualities (including their dispositional tendencies, relations, etc.).
The problem I have with omnibenevolence is a function of omniscience is that it makes sin the result of a bad education, so to speak. I'll be a better person if I can just know more things. But that definitely doesn't seem to play out in my experience.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/14/2009 1:14 AM (GMT -6) | | Hmmm. Strategic allocation of attention.
Having a thought. It seems like this would be the seat of human freedom. In other words, we have limited, yet authentic freedom to decide what we want to focus our attention and concentration on.
Now, I think this can be applied to the freedom in the human person to either "pay attention" to God as he truly is in reality...or ignoring God and giving attentions to perceptions of God and reality lead by human desire and imagination. (Idols)
In other words, we are free to "negatively prehend" or willfully ignore God by focusing on other created things, including the self-reflected self's idea of the self. We are free to forget God...but we are also free to remember God, too.
Perhaps Jesus' sinlessness was due to his using his "stragetic allocation of attention" only towards his God and Father's Working in Creation, distracting him from all desire to sin. He would be tempted, but never yield. Why? He was always "distracted" from sin with his love for the Father and His Will.
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Remembering God, who IS Truth, Righteousness, Purity, and Love, and enjoying God in all things would seem to be the cure for the sick, sinful human heart.
Just thoughts.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."
"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian." -James Fowler Post Edited (One Love) : 6/14/2009 1:53:27 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/14/2009 1:24 AM (GMT -6) | | How about...
"Don't think about God, and you probably won't behave like God exists."
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."
"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian." -James Fowler | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/14/2009 2:39 AM (GMT -6) | | Attention. Focus. Concentration. Hmmmm....
Jhāna
Samadhi
For Samadhi in Bhakti...
The Vaishnava Bhakti Schools of Yoga define Samadhi as "complete absorption into the object of one's love (Krishna)." Rather than thinking of "nothing," true samadhi is said to be achieved only when one has pure, unmotivated love of God. Thus samadhi can be entered into through meditation on the personal form of God, even while performing daily activities a practitioner can strive for full samadhi.
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"Anyone who is thinking of Krsna always within himself, he is first-class yogi." If you want perfection in yoga system, don't be satisfied only by practicing a course of asana. You have to go further. Actually, the perfection of yoga system means when you are in samadhi, always thinking of the Visnu form of the Lord within your heart, without being disturbed... Controlling all the senses and the mind. You have to control the mind, control the senses, and concentrate everything on the form of Vishnu. That is called perfection of yoga"
Not trying to be reductionistic or anything. Not trying to gloss stuff over. Just let me play substitution for a sec...
"Anyone who is thinking of the Spiritual Presence of Christ the Logos always within himself, he is first-class spiritual person." If you want perfection in human spirituality, don't be satisfied only by practicing a course of religious bodily positions and actions. You have to go further. Actually, the perfection of spiritual growth means when you are in "single-eyed stillness", always thinking of the 'Christ the Logos as Divine Center' form of the Lord within your heart, without being disturbed... Controlling all the senses and the mind, bringing the mind into the 'heart.' You have to control the mind, control the senses, and concentrate everything on the form of the Logos. That is called perfection of the human spiritual walk."
Sounds about right to me. 
"...Christ as Creator-Logos is to be envisaged, not as on the outside, but as on the inside of everything. It is a frequent fault of religious writers that they speak of the created universe as if it were an artifact of a Maker Who has, so to speak, produced it from without. God the Creator becomes the celestial Clock-maker Who sets the cosmic process in motion, winding up the clock, but then leaving it to continue ticking on its own. This will not do. It is important to avoid such images as the divine architect, builder or engineer, and to speak rather in terms of indwelling (without thereby excluding the dimension of divine transcendence). Creation is not something upon which God acts from the outside, but something through which he expresses Himself from within. Transcendent, He is also immanent; above and beyond creation, He is also its true inwardness, its 'within.' "
Bishop Kallistos of Diokleia
The pictures represents Krishna as the "true inwardness" of everything and everyone, even atoms. Christianly speaking, I'd say that this felt impression from Hinduism's adherents is based on the reality of the Logos.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."
"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian." -James Fowler Post Edited (One Love) : 6/14/2009 9:06:54 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
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| Posted 6/14/2009 8:51 AM (GMT -6) | | Tom: I think you're right--necessary omnibenevolence is a function of necessary omniscience. But I thought you qualified the latter so that there were aspects about the future God either could not or choose not to know. But wouldn't any gap in knowledge translate into a possibility of a lapse in character? So are you back on board with unqualified omniscience: God ehaustively and infallibly apprehends all actualities (including their dispositional tendencies, relations, etc.).
Jeff: I think whatever our non-relativistic, normative thinking requires to be true of God, simply IS true of God if that thinking is to be coherent and intelligible. Thus, God must be omniscient about certain classes of knowledge, IMO, for non-relavistic, normative thinking to be coherent. I'm still not sure that God needs to know what He will purpose a trillion years from now for my rational thought about our designed world to be properly grounded.
As long as He knows by some means or mode, inconceivable to my mind, that nothing does or ever can exist that has power over Him, I don't see why it makes any difference to God's omnicompetence if He knows what He will or might purpose a trillion years from now. In fact, not knowing such things would mean that God is analogous to us in terms of delighting in novelty. And that might actually help us explain things that need to be explained. But at a minimum, He must know everything necessary to bring about His ends once He HAS purposed them, and He must know that nothing can or will exist that will over-power Him in the attaining of those ends. IOW, we can't comprehend HOW those modes of knowlege can exist, but we know them to be BRUTE FACTS necessary to the coherence and intelligibility of our non-relativistic, normative thought.
Tom: The problem I have with omnibenevolence is a function of omniscience is that it makes sin the result of a bad education, so to speak. I'll be a better person if I can just know more things. But that definitely doesn't seem to play out in my experience.
Jeff: Right, proper apprehension is a NECESSARY, but not SUFFICIENT, condition of right-relating. The existence of the proper desires and strength to allocate suffient attention to them are also necessary. A person can become a slave to "divers lusts and pleasures" by not exercising the will to keep it strong--if you don't use it, you lose it. And so on...
Post Edited (Similtude) : 6/14/2009 10:29:12 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
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| Posted 6/14/2009 9:12 AM (GMT -6) | | D: How about...
"Don't think about God, and you probably won't behave like God exists."
Jeff: No doubt about it. We not only have to think about God, we have to KNOW Him as He IS so that we can truly commune with Him with the intimacy that is proper for a Being of His nature. We have to know that He is the one from who we have the LEAST to fear in one sense, and the MOST to fear in another. The former because He is the source and assurer of my highest possible good; the latter because He is the source and assurer of the highest possible good of my neighbor and His Son--which means that God must MOTIVATE in a way that takes ALL the interests of the moral community into consideration. And that means there must be real accountability and discipline in the short run for those who do not love perfectly.
Post Edited (Similtude) : 6/14/2009 10:29:30 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 6/14/2009 1:32 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/14/2009 1:44 PM (GMT -6) | | Sigh...alrighty, my Brother Turtle.
How about this: The "Krisha" concept could be a meeting point of faith for inter-faith dialogue. To the extent that the Krishna idea is a "redemptive analogy" for the truth of the Logos in all things and all people, we should be able to note those similarities...though NOT SAYING that "Krisha = Christ" or something like that.
Better? 
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
"I love, therefore I am in I Am. God is my life."
"God in Christ by His Spirit empowers, enables, energizes and enacts all Christian behavior and ministry as the dynamic expression of the life of Jesus Christ. Christianity is Christ. Christian living is the life and character of Jesus Christ lived out through the Christian." -James Fowler | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 6/14/2009 2:31 PM (GMT -6) | | I love redemptive analogies! Ha! Plus I was joking. Well, mostly.
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One Love
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| Posted 6/14/2009 2:40 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 6/14/2009 9:28 PM (GMT -6) | | Just mostly. You wanted to ultimately translate this into Evangelese. If you put a picture of Krishna in a book written for Evangelicals and start talking about the Logos and logoi and Christ as being this or that...
...you just lost 'em all. Heck, EVEN IF you say this is a redemptive analogy you'll lose a lot! They ain't easy, them Evagies. ;o)
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Similitude
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| Posted 10/14/2009 12:29 PM (GMT -6) | | | from http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/2/2009/10/14/neuroscience_the_importance_of_focused_a"
In a 2005 article for the United Kingdom's Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London, physicist Henry Stapp and psychiatrist Jeffrey Schwartz showed that sustained concentrated attention on any particular mental experience-a thought, an insight, an image, even a fear-not only kept the brain circuitry involved open and alive but also eventually produced physical changes in the brain's structure. In effect, by increasing attention, you are creating brain architecture specifically suited to the challenges before you.
"... who, though despising the shame, CONSIDERED the joy set before him!"
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One Love
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| Posted 10/15/2009 6:30 AM (GMT -6) | | Quote from the site:
Schwartz is the lead author of The Mind and the Brain, which sets forth this thesis in more detail. Basically, our minds become what we focus attention on, and this can be good or bad for us, depending on what that is.
I guess this means that we should always "strategically allocate" our concentrated attention on Jesus' Spiritual Presence via unceasing prayer to God. Keeping our renewed minds on God is the means by which we empty ourselves to be filled by the Holy Spirit continually. Essentially, meditating on Ultimate Reality keeps one grounded in it...rather than to fall into one's imagined perspectives on reality. Jesus Prayer is extremely helpful for this, obviously. We "become" what we think about . As a person thinks, so are they...and all that. As the Christian meditates on Christ's reality in the PRESENT (Where God actually is), the person is more conformed to the reality they perceive, via the Holy Spirit. So, Tom. "Where" are you? Used to sing this song in the old Baptist church as a kid...on Wednesday Night bible study meetings... Woke up this mornin with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Woke up this morning with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Halelu-Halelu-Halelu-lah
Walkin around with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Walkin around with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Halelu-Halelu-Halelu-lah
Sittin and prayin with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Sittin and prayin with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
It ain't no harm to keep yo' my mind
Stayin on Jesus
It ain't no harm to keep yo' my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Halelu-Halelu-Halelu-lah
Walkin around with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Walkin around with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Halelu-Halelu-Halelu-lah
Sittin and prayin with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Sittin and prayin with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Halelu-Halelu-Halelu-lah
Woke up this mornin with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Woke up this morning with my mind
Stayin on Jesus
Halelu-Halelu-Halelu-lah Obsession (with God) and Remembering God
or just...
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world {OL's Note: The "world" that doesn't "see" God, a God-less world, this present evil age, etc} , but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... Post Edited (One Love) : 10/15/2009 6:39:40 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/15/2009 10:13 AM (GMT -6) | | Tom, read your email. Excited. I'll hit you back.
Repost. A helpful technique, I think, of mindfulness of God's Presence.
Whenever you think about it...use your breathing. Silently speak to the Lord saying "Spirit of Jesus" while exhaling, and "Come." while inhaling.
So everytime you breathe, you say "Come, Spirit of Jesus, Come..."
It helps me to really imagine the One Holy "Breath" of God "in-spiring" my entire being as I "re-spire" the one "breath" of the Earth's atmosphere. Actually, I take it as a memory helper for epiclesis. Just as my body cannot be sustained without the Earth's breath, so also my humanity itself cannot be sustained without God's Breath, the Spirit of Jesus. In my mind's eye, I partake in Christ's actual reality as I "take him in" by faith...with every breath.
It may not work for some, but it may work for others.
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
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One Love
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| Posted 10/15/2009 10:18 AM (GMT -6) | | Nother thought. Actually, not mine. St. Albert the Great.
What the perfection of man consist of in this life
Now the more the mind is concerned about thinking and dealing with what is merely lower and human, the more it is separated from the experience in the intimacy of devotion of what is higher and heavenly, while the more fervently the memory, desire and intellect is withdrawn from what is below to what is above, the more perfect will be our prayer, and the purer our contemplation, since the two directions of our interest cannot both be perfect at the same time, being as different as light and darkness. He who cleaves to God is indeed translated into the light, while he who clings to the world is in the dark. So the supreme perfection of man in this life is to be so united to God that all his soul with all its faculties and powers are so gathered into the Lord God that he becomes one spirit with him, and remembers nothing except God, is aware of and recognises nothing but God, but with all his desires unified by the joy of love, he rests contentedly in the enjoyment of his Maker alone.
Now the image of God as found in the soul consists of these three faculties, namely reason, memory and will, and so long as they are not completely stamped with God, the soul is not yet deiform in accordance with the initial creation of the soul. For the true pattern of the soul is God, with whom it must be imprinted, like wax with a seal, and carry the mark of his impress. But this can never be complete until the intellect is perfectly illuminated, according to its capacity, with the knowledge of God, who is perfect truth, until the will is perfectly focused on the love of the perfect good, and until the memory is fully absorbed in turning to and enjoying eternal happiness, and in gladly and contentedly resting in it. And since the glory of the beatitude which is achieved in our heavenly homeland consists in the complete fulfilment of these three faculties, it follows that perfect initiation of them is perfection in this life.
In John Piper's language, it's when our satisfaction in God is at it's highest, and God's glofication in, with, and through us is maximized in a simulateneous experience of faith and Grace. But it assumes a life of unceasing communion with God...meaning unceasing ATTENTION TO God.
Jesus demonstrated human perfection...by never having God his Father "out of his mind." He always paid attention to God and focused on God's will...unlike sinners.
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... Post Edited (One Love) : 10/15/2009 10:23:55 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/16/2009 1:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
To me, if there are non-God realities (and there are), then it can't undermine our oneness with God to perceive them as non-God. This truth should enhance and empower our living for/with/in God.
Having said that, the truth about non-God realities is that God is the ground and sustainer of their being, no doubt. And that also gets perceived and said every time we perceive and speak of non-God reality. God is part of the definition of every 'thing' and every 'location'. Right. But there REALLY are NON-God realities. Nothing illusory about that. I get the feeling that this escapes your view sometimes.
I think the "Eighth Day" is simply when people stop thinking about the "Universe" as some THING in which they exist as individuals over and against their environment, and see it for what it truly is: ONE big theophany with infinite distinctiveness and particularity grounded in the Uncreated Energy of the ONE Triune God by the ONE Spirit of God in the ONE Eternal Logos of God. A great big Burning Bush aflame with uncreated light.
So, nothing is seen as "just" X. Nope. Everything is seen in terms of the Uncreated Energy
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... Post Edited (One Love) : 10/16/2009 1:51:37 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 10/16/2009 1:47 PM (GMT -6) | | Berdyaev is your boy, right, Tom?
We are entering an epoch of a new spirituality, that will correspond to the new form of mysticism. It will no longer be possible to argue against a heightened spiritual and mystical life that human nature is sinful and that sin must first be overcome. A heightened spiritual and mystical life is the road to the victory over sin. And the world is entering a catastrophic period of choice and division, when these will be required of all Christians, an uplifting and intensification of their inner lives. The external, everyday, moderate Christianity is breaking up. But eternal, inward, mystical Christianity is becoming stronger and better established. And within mysticism itself a 'paraclete' type is beginning to predominate. The epoch of new spirituality in Christianity, can only be an epoch of a great and hitherto unheard of manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
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One Love
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| Posted 10/16/2009 2:00 PM (GMT -6) | | Think about it, Tom.
There is DIAPHORA/DIFFERENCE that bridges the intelligible and sensate of the created order. This diaphora is part of the logos of creation. (This is how we have both angelic AND human created self-relational beings). There is also DIAPHORA/DIFFERENCE that bridges the Uncreated and the Created. (Think Energies/Essence distinction).
Sin is basically taking the context of DIAPHORA/DIFFERENCE (which means necessary "distance" for distinction's sake)...and bringing DIARESIS/DIVISION.
Spirit-filled human beings who have the Logos dwelling within are to UNIFY THE DIVISIONS in Creation epicletically and eucharistically.
Where other people say "Wow. Look at the universe.", Christians can reflect upon the same content in all its created particularity and distinctiveness and say "Wow. Look at God's love."
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... Post Edited (One Love) : 10/16/2009 2:05:09 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/16/2009 3:03 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom, you are making WAAAAY too big of a deal out of this. Really, though. Drama king status.
I fully believe that creaturely being is INFINITELY DIFFERENT and INFINITELY DISTINCT from uncreated being. This means that creaturely being and uncreated being have MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE realities even though they do have COMMON GROUND via the One Uncreated Spirit. THAT is real, sir. THAT'S what divine "otherness" necessitates and implies. In other words, the uncreated and created aspects of the Incarnate Word were INFINITELY DIFFERENT/DISTINCT from one another though INSEPARABLY UNITED in one hypostasis, that of God the Son.
That's not the same thing as invoking negation, which tends towards a sense of INFINITE DIVISION and INFINITE SEPARATION between created and uncreated being. There is NO DIARESIS in Christ...at all.
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... Post Edited (One Love) : 10/16/2009 3:44:09 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/16/2009 3:47 PM (GMT -6) | | Look at how you talk about this, Tom...
"To me, if there are non-God realities (and there are), then it can't undermine our oneness with God to perceive them as non-God. This truth should enhance and empower our living for/with/in God."
"But there REALLY are NON-God realities. Nothing illusory about that."
How about something I would say?
"To me, if there are created realities (and there are), then it can't undermine our oneness with the Uncreated to perceive them as created. This truth of the infinite difference/distinction between the two realities should enhance and empower our living for/with/in the Uncreated. There really are realities that are contingent, perspectivally limited, and experientially surpassible...unlike the Uncreated. Nothing illusory about that."
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... Post Edited (One Love) : 10/16/2009 3:51:11 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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