 |
| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > General Chat > Train of Thought: The Mystery of Evil | Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/26/2009 11:11 AM (GMT -6) |   | | Three givens:
1) "Whatever is not of faith is sin."
2) "Without faith, it is impossible to please God."
3) Jesus desires faith: "When the Son of Man returns, will he find faith on the earth?"
What is the "faith" we are talking about? An unshakable trust in God that is grounded and "energized" by passionate, singular love for God. This accompanies unconditional dependence upon God's Eternal Grace/Working in one's life. I'd say that this "faith" is what comes out of loving God with all one's being.
Then the train of thought
1) Is pleasing God (The Lord Jesus) the singular most important thing in my life? Said another way, is it continually my "ultimate concern" that the Holy Spirit of Jesus be constantly joyful in our behavior and "never greived"? [It ain't...after reflection. ]
2) If #1 is an possible reality for the Christian...and I realize I'm not there yet...doesn't this mean that a significant amount of my energy, time, and passion should be spent doing something that makes #1 a genuine possibility? [Let's say yeah...]
3) Is continually applied " stragetic allocation of attention" towards Divine Presence (through communion in God's Holy Spirit) something that make #1 a genuine possibility? [let's say yeah...praying without ceasing...]
and...
4) Is continually applied "stragetic allocation of attention" towards Divine Presence (through offering one's body as "living sacrifice" to God for work in the world) something that make #1 a genuine possibility?
Then why do I continue IGNORING GOD so much of the time, even when I supposedly "know" these things? Why do I make pleasing MYSELF or people important TO ME my "ultimate concern" all the time? Why do I NOT try to be a "living sacrifice" when it's INCONVENIENT for me?
I'm really feeling Romans 7...
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
And I don't feel I'm alone in this struggle. It's a (fallen) human struggle.
But What IS this mystery of evil? How can loving communion with God be the most desirably beautiful experience possible...and we continually negate his presence for our own egocentric endeavors? What makes our "bowl of soup" taste better than the promise of a birthright? What IS it that makes rebellion ignorance of God feel so...well...normal?
Dang...
Any thoughts?
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... Post Edited (One Love) : 10/26/2009 11:21:35 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
 |
Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 10/26/2009 5:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Yo, D!
As creatures of God's creation (and grace!), we are gifted with a two-fold blessing and a bridge to unite the two-fold blessing in order to experience that place of complete surrender and to walk IN the Lord as we were destined to do so. First, we are given freewill; the ability to choose to surrender. Second, we are given the "way" unto surrender; Christ's crucified and resurrected life. And third, we were given the bridge that makes the connection between our freewill and His life; the desire to surrender our will over to His.
In regard to this matter, nothing is more important than to understand that it is never, ever enough to just will to do God's will; it is only enough to both will and DESIRE His will--"I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart" (Ps 40:8).
To truly understand what it means to be the Lord's slave, a bondservant of Christ, is to truly understand what it means to have been crucified with Him: all of humanity’s Self, Self-Centeredness and Selfishness had died. That is, when Christ was crucified, He not only took care of the sin question, but He removed the obstacle of Self. He carried with Him to the cross and to the death that entire existence of mankind that causes him to rebel against God.
Since man can offer NOTHING acceptable of himself to God, it all must die, and in Him it did die. Further, we died in Him so that we do not—nay, cannot--live in the old, in the flesh, in that place called Self, where rebellion against God exists. For "those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh, along with its passions and desires" (Gal 5).
When one has come to understand that one is dead in Christ, there is no more struggle, for dead men do not struggle. But this understanding can only come about in one way, and then, and then, only, can experience prove the truth. And that truth is that one MUST receive the revelation from God's spirit about this mighty spiritual truth, and then one can prove its truth; for only then is the opportunity to "walk" in the immediate will of God made possible, both as a desire to do so and in complete surrender. (Do not confuse your own ability to constrain some of your sin as this truth. More on this in a moment.)
Only as God gives revelation of the Self and of Self-Centeredness can it be seen for what it is: that which separates us from God, but that which is dead in Christ and no longer has power over us. And the moment this truth is seen, therein lies (or is it "lays" or...?) our opportunity to proclaim, "I am crucified with Christ, yet nevertheless I live," and "Those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh, along with its passions and desires. (One no longer constrains sin; rather, one, quite simply, is dead to it and is no longer in its territory. The struggle is over at this point.
Truly, this is to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. The "Victory" we talk about is nothing more, nor less, than stay on the side where life, and not death, is found. To be where God is, is to stay where sin and death and Self are not. To walk IN Him, IN His crucified and resurrected life, where there is no law against the things of the Spirit, is to not be found “walking” where Self, opposition and rebellion are found. This is accomplished only when revelation of your Self has come full front before your spiritual eyes, and the way, then, is made possible to both desire and do His will.
However, there is one catch that has caught so many Christians (myself included) off guard and caused so much anxiety, pain and confusion about this life in the Spirit, thus having caused most of us to conclude that we just aren’t trying hard enough (some even give up). The catch? Simply this: it is hardly found preached that one can only obtain such walk if one first obtains the spirit of wisdom and revelation (Eph 1, 3:14-19; Phil 1:9-11, which leads to the life of 3:7-16; Col 1:9-14, which leads to the life mentioned in Col chapter 3). Oh, we “know” these truths, but that is all most of us have; a knowledge about such spiritual things and of a walk that most certainly transcends our own. And this will always be the case until one comes to understand that one absolutely MUST be given the impact of divine revelation and wisdom about one's condition before God. Otherwise, what we see in the daily lives of most Christians, our own attempts to stop, thwart, overcome, or even avoid the flesh, is all we will ever have.
If you think otherwise, simply review D's post above. It is the story of the abnormal Christian life in which most of us Christians live. This is not at all, however, what we are promised and what we are to experience as the norm in our walk with God. Until we come to understand just how far removed we have placed the need for direct, spiritual wisdom and revelation from God (even though our Self-attempts are based from sincerity), it will never be that we will come into that place where, when are presented with yet another aspect our Self, we can immediately recon it to death and live outside of and totally dead to its former place of power in our lives. We absolutely must come to understand (by revelation) just what really happened to the Self and Self-Centeredness of humanity when Christ died.
I repeat: Try as you may, you will fail and fail and fail again to walk in the Lord as you know you should until you receive divine revelation about how dead you really are in Him. Then and then only will you be able to fully delight in His will and find opportunity to walk in that newness of life, that abundant life He promised us. When this reality (revelation) hits, the truth of Self and Self-Centeredness becomes so clear--and I mean, so very, very clear--that it becomes laughable to think of ever wanting to live in Self again. And for this reason, there is probably no greater truth than this one that Satan would want kept from the Christian.
Paul NEVER figured this stuff out; he got it straight from the Spirit of God (revelation), and we, as well, are to receive from the Spirit no less truth. But we have forgotten this. We have replaced the need of revelation with our own mental aptitude, our own knowledge, and our own strength. We have not learned from God’s Spirit--without revelation, NO truth is of service to God—the real truth about our Self; that we are completely unable, in all regards, to offer Him anything of ourselves, even if we are sincere. It all must be from and of and in Him, or it is spiritually useless. And only revelation from Him can reveal this deep truth.
Finally, I want to emphasize that it isn't that one is suddenly without any struggle just because revelation has come. Rather, it is that once revelation comes (about any truth, for that matter) one now has the ability to walk in that truth--how can one desire and walk in what one hasn't even come to understand?--and one can then exercise the will, in view of a fresh and new desire, a desire of delight in doing His will, in order to surrender all of the discovered Self each time God it to us. It is an on-going reality of seeing, delighting, willing and surrendering. But, that is EXACTLY what it is supposed to be.
Note, too, that many Christians walk in and out of the Spirit, an inconsistency that only serves to strengthen the effort of Self in overcoming sin. One minute a Christian knows (by revelation) that God is with Him in his endeavor, and truth can never be more beautiful. Many truths can the Christian receive, yet, right around the corner is found sin crouching at the door; another seemingly unavoidable lethal blow, and the Christian falls.
This in-and-out of the Spirit is maddening (I know it as well as anyone walking on the face of the earth…after thirty years of the struggle). Once, though, the revelation of all that is needed in order to enlighten the Christian arrives, the game is seen for what it truly is: dead and over. To be sure, self never dies in the sense that it ceases to exist; it has only been separated--the meaning of "death"--from us. One day, indeed, Self, Selfishness and Self-Centeredness will cease to exist, thank the Lord. But until then, we have the promise of walking IN Him and being kept free from sin and Self's power.Post Edited (Starkman) : 10/26/2009 5:19:12 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
|
Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 10/27/2009 5:57 PM (GMT -6) | | God is Trinity. Both diversity and unity. Your #3 and #4 have the word 'continually' in them. In one sense that's fine, but in another than can easily turn into legalism. I can have food and drinks with my friends and simultaneously understand how we are living in community and bringing about the kingdom in that event. Or I can have food and drinks with my friends and that thought might not occur to me. Either way is ok. There's a time for both. I don't think we are built to be deliberate and deliberating all the time.
There's a play called JB based on the book of Job. I've got my problems with the play, but there's one part I like a lot. At supper J.B.'s (Job's) wife Sarah is reprimanding their children:
Sarah: gently God doesn't give all this all for nothing:
A good home, good food,
Father, mother, brothers, sisters.
We too have our part to play.
If we do our part He does His,
He always has. If we forget Him
He will forget. Forever. In everything.
David!
...Did you think of God?
Did you think, when you woke in your beds this morning,
Any one of you, of Him?
J.B.: uncomfortable Of course they did. They couldn't have helped it...
later...
J.B.: Children know the grace of God
Better than most of us. They see the world
The way the morning brings it back to them,
New and born and fresh and wonderful...Post Edited (Sahid) : 10/27/2009 6:01:24 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
|
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/28/2009 10:56 PM (GMT -6) | | "Christ Died for Our Sins That We Might Die to Sin"
Sermon by John Piper
"Creation is allowed in intimate love to speak to the Creator as if to a lover. As the Creator loves the creation, so the creation loves the Creator. The whole world has been embraced by this kiss."
Hildegard of Bingen
Know me, Eternal Lover...and help me to know You... | | Back to Top | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 11:00 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|