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One Love
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| Posted 2/1/2010 10:59 AM (GMT -6) |   | | What would it look like for the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" to be applied to knowing God?
The phenomenon was demonstrated in a series of experiments performed by Justin Kruger and David Dunning, then both of Cornell University. Their results were published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology in December 1999.[1][3] However, the phenomenon had been assumed a priori by many philosophers for nearly a century prior to Kruger and Dunning's study (see Russell quote above).
Kruger and Dunning noted a number of previous studies which tend to suggest that in skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis, "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" (as Charles Darwin put it).[4] They hypothesized that with a typical skill which humans may possess in greater or lesser degree,
--Incompetent individuals tend to overestimate their own level of skill.
--Incompetent individuals fail to recognize genuine skill in others.
--Incompetent individuals fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy.
--If they can be trained to substantially improve their own skill level, these individuals can recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill.
The authors draw an analogy with anosognosia – a condition in which a person who suffers a physical disability due to brain injury seems unaware of or denies the existence of the disability. This may include unawareness of quite dramatic impairments, such as blindness or paralysis.
I think that spiritual incompetence in knowing God would have to LACK something that spiritual competence finds essential. I'd say that this "something" is humility.
People who lack humility (especially before God) necessarily lack competency in the knowledge and evalutations of self and others, insofar as said activities do NOT accurately reflect reality. People that can't work on the beam in their own eye cannot see clearly enough to be competent in helping the speck in their neighbor's eye. People that can't recognize THAT they hold presuppositions definitely can't ALLOW FOR their own unconsciously held presuppositions when knowledge of God is the subject matter.
Actually, it makes sense. If one is not humble enough to think that something MAY be wrong with their state of mind, opinions, perspectives and/or actions, then that one certainly won't be able to accept or embrace that something IS quite seriously wrong with them, despite what they self-interpret. Just because a person thinks they "know God" doesn't mean that they do. Matthew 7:13-29, right? It's not those who are "cocksure" about being healthy that truly feel any immediate need for the doctor, but those who understand that they are sick, yes?
Post Edited (One Love) : 2/1/2010 10:18:06 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 2/1/2010 11:09 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Asher
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| Posted 2/2/2010 3:35 PM (GMT -6) | | Leaving aside whether I agree with your basic premise...I don't see how your basic premise invokes the Dunning–Kruger effect...or at least not all of it. What about this part:
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It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."
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If the purpose of drawing attention to the Dunning–Kruger effect is so that people can correct themselves...
it just as much is saying that the actually competent should exhibit less "humility" and more self-confidence as it is saying that the incompetent should exhibit more "humility" and less self-confidence.
I think it is rare for someone to be without any humility. Think about it. If someone was absolutely 100% certain of their views...they just wouldn't interact with people who thought differently. And while this may be the functional inertial state of many many people...the reason that it is so is not that they ARE that certain, but that they find themselves exhausted by the logistics of ascertaining whether they agree with someone to any great degree or not.
So, I think people for the most part do exhibit an adequate level of humility. People are humble. Humble and lazy! | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 2/3/2010 3:15 PM (GMT -6) | | Asher:
So, I think people for the most part do exhibit an adequate level of humility. People are humble. Humble and lazy!
The Lord Jesus Christ's level of humility is the only adequate level. Period. Whoever ain't matchin' that...is "missing the mark." I don't know about you, but I ain't got there yet. (Phil 3:12-16)
If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
But I would agree that I am lazy! Spirit, spurn me! Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. I'm with you, Tom. Lord give me grace to be humble.
Post Edited (One Love) : 2/3/2010 2:30:51 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Asher
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Total Posts : 477
| Posted 2/3/2010 3:26 PM (GMT -6) | | One Love: "The Lord Jesus Christ's level of humility is the only adequate level. Period. Whoever ain't matchin' that...is "missing the mark."
So, if I make a whip to clear the temples, decry the white-washed tombs of people's lives, and declare some people to be vipers...
...I'm humble enough?
Just kiddin' 
I know what your saying...just think it may be overstated and overgeneralized a bit. Which means how I would say it would be shaded differently...but that's nothing new between us. We're still on the same page...or at least in the same snow globe.  | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 2/3/2010 3:29 PM (GMT -6) | | Asher:
I know what your saying...just think it may be overstated and overgeneralized a bit. Which means how I would say it would be shaded differently...but that's nothing new between us. We're still on the same page...or at least in the same snow globe.
I guess that IS part of our dynamic, huh? HA! 
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One Love
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| Posted 2/3/2010 3:35 PM (GMT -6) | | From the Kruger-Dunning paper....
5.1. The Burden of Expertise
Although our emphasis has been on the miscalibration of incompetent individuals, along the way we discovered that highly competent individuals also show some sys-tematic bias in their self appraisals. Across the four sets of studies, participants in the top quartile tended to un-derestimate their ability and test performance relative to their peers, Zs = -5.66 and -4.77, respectively, ps < .0001. What accounts for this underestimation? Here, too, the regression effect seems a likely candidate: Just as ex-tremely low performances are likely to be associated with slightly higher perceptions of performance, so too are extremely high performances likely to be associated with slightly lower perceptions of performance.
As it turns out, however, our data point to a more psychological explanation. Specifically, top-quartile participants appear to have fallen prey to a false-consensus effect (Ross et al, 1977). Simply put, these participants assumed that because they performed so well, their peers must have performed well likewise. This would have led top-quartile participants to underestimate their comparative abilities (i.e., how their general ability and test per-formance compare with that of their peers), but not their absolute abilities (i.e., their raw score on the test). This was precisely the pattern of data we observed: Compared with participants falling in the third quartile, participants in the top quartile were an average of 23% less calibrated in terms of their comparative performance on the test-but 16% more calibrated in terms of their objective per-formance on the test.
More conclusive evidence came from Phase 2 of Study 3. Once top-quartile participants learned how poorly their peers had performed, they raised their self-appraisals to more accurate levels. We have argued that unskilled individuals suffer a dual burden:
Not only do they perform poorly, but they fail to realize it. It thus appears that extremely competent individuals suffer a burden as well. Although they perform com-petently, they fail to realize that their proficiency is not necessarily shared by their peers.
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Asher
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| Posted 2/3/2010 3:35 PM (GMT -6) | | One Love: "A human being operating in anything less than Jesus' Spirit-empowered level of human existence is, in fact, operating at LESS THAN the "full humanity" open to be lived."
I guess whether I agree with this or not depends on what this
"Jesus' Spirit-empowered level of human existence" is constituted by.
For example, all humans (possible exception of Jesus?) are prone to epistemic miscalculation even when their hearts are fully turned towards God...which means they do inflict suffering on others even when they have no intention to do such. Would you say that Jesus inflicted unintentional suffering on others or that He was immune to this problem faced by all other human beings?
Be ye ever so Spirit-empowered if you have a free will and you lack all necessary information you are gonna make some mistakes. And this has no bearing on whether you are sufficiently humble or not. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 2/3/2010 3:39 PM (GMT -6) | | Asher:
I guess whether I agree with this or not depends on what this "Jesus' Spirit-empowered level of human existence" is constituted by.
I think you would. It simply means living in, by, and with the Spirit of God as Jesus did as a human being. In other words, true humanity, as demonstrated by Jesus, is pnematological.
Like Paul talks about being "continually filled" with the Holy Spirit. All that.
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Asher
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| Posted 2/3/2010 4:57 PM (GMT -6) | | Can one be filled by the Holy Spirit and still make epistemological mistakes? Could Jesus make epistemological mistakes?
"in, by and with the Spirit"
in...does this speak to ontology, attitudinal disposition, what?
by...does this speak to methodology, epistemology, what?
with...being cognizant of His presence?
Can true pneumatological humanity make mistakes of any kind, whether intentional or not? | | Back to Top | | |
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