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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/31/2010 12:35 PM (GMT -6) |   | | I was thinking about this thread with Starkman's stuff earlier. (Excellent stuff, by the way, Starky! ) He talks about getting the revelation of God about Christ's "life-producing death" in us.
It came to me again: those who are "dead to self" don't yield to temptation to self-idolatry. But only God can produce the death to the self. We can't do it. We're too "addicted" to the self life. How does He do it? Watch this...
Marcus J. Borg
Jesus: A New Vision--Spirit, Culture, and the Life of Discipleship.
Chapter 6. Jesus as Sage: Challenge to Conventional Wisdom
"The Way of Death"
Pages 112-115
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The central image of the Christian tradition is an image of death: the cross. To be sure, the cross is also an image of life because of its intrinsic connection to resurrection; Good Friday and Easter belong together. Undoubtedly the cross is so central because of the way Jesus' historical life ended. Yet what it symbolizes--death and resurrection--was also one of the central images for the path of transformation taught by Jesus himself.
In one of Jesus' best-known sayings, he spoke explicitly of the path as the way of dying: "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cros and follow me." Using the language of a path or way ( "come after me," "follow me" ), Jesus starkly indentified that path as "taking up the cross." Before Jesus' death, "cross" was obviously not yet a Christian symbol but referred to a method of execution used by the Romans. It was customary for the person sentenced to be crucified to carry the horizontal beam of the cross to the place of execution. Hence, "taking up one's cross" meant walking the road to death. The meaning of the saying is clear: to be a follower of Jesus was to embark upon the path of death.
The same point was made with other closely related metaphors. Jesus asked his disciples, "Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?" "Drinking the cup" and baptism were both images for death. Similiarly, Jesus said, "Whoever seeks to gain his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it."
But what kind of death was this? Clearly it was meant metaphorically and not literally. The "way of death" did not mean physical death, even though some of the early followers of Jesus were martyred. Rather, it was a metaphor for an internal process, as Luke made clear by adding the word "daily" to the saying about taking up one's cross. This internal dying or death has two closely related dimensions of meaning. On the one hand, it is a dying of the self as the center of its own concern. On the other hand, it is a dying to the world as the center of security and identity. These--the self and the world--are the two great rival centers to centering in God, and the path of transformation thus involves a dying to both of them. The "world" to which one must die is the world of conventional wisdom, the world of "culture" with its preoccupying securities; and the self which must die is the self-preoccupied self. Then is born a self which is centered in God, in Spirit and not in culture.
"Dying" is a striking metaphor for this process. It points to the radicality of the change, of course; this radical recentering brings about a change so sharp that is can described as dying to an old life and being born into a new life. "Dying" may have a further nuance as well. Because the heart which is centered in culture cannot be changed by the mind or the will (for both are slaves of the heart), a hardened heart must in a sense die in order that a new heart may be created; it cannot change itself. "Dying" is something that happens to the self as opposed to it being something that the self accomplishes. How this dying occurs varies greatly from person to person; for some, it may involve an inrushing of the Spirit, for others a severe life crisis, for others, a long, gradual journey. But, in any case, the central movement in dying is a handing over, a surrendering, a letting go, and a radical central in God.
This transformation brought about through an internal death is at the heart of the early Christian tradition. Paul describes himself as having undergone such a death: "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." It is found in John's theology: "Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." Baptism, the early church's ritual of initiation, was understood as a death of an old self and a resurrection of a new self.
This widespread attestation of the motif in the tradition is to some extent due to the way Jesus' historical life ended. But it is also a continuation of what Jesus himself taught. In a quite historical sense, Jesus not only taught the way of death as the path of transformation, but his life and death became an incarnation of the way which he taught. Indeed, it is this remarkable congruity between the teaching of Jesus and the way his life ended that accounts in part for the power which his figure has had over the centuries. Thus the cross is an extraordinarily rich image, pointing both to the death of Jesus and to the heart of his teaching: the path of transformation is a dying to the self and the world.
There is thus a world-denying and culture-denying quality to the teaching of Jesus. The statement needs to be guarded against three possible misinterpretations. It was not a world denial based upon a dualistic understanding of the material or natural world as evil, and the world of Spirit as good. Jesus took delight in the natural world as the creation of God. He was not an ascetic in the usual sense of the word; he was reputed to enjoy both food and drink, and was known for banqueting with outcasts. Though he spoke of abandoning the family as the center of one's loyalty and security and apparently was unmarried himself, there is no reason to think that he was opposed to sexuality. Indeed, he sanctified the family more than his tradition did. In short, it was not the natural world or the finite itself that was evil; consistent with the Jewish tradition, Jesus saw that as created by God and therefore good.
Second, his challenge to conventional wisdom was not a complete overthrowing or disregard of tradition. He was, in an important sense, neither anit-law nor anti-convention. He was a Jew who treasured his tradition. He quoted Scripture, explicitly affirmed the Ten Commandments, and so far as we know observed the Jewish law all his life. Rather, his challenge to conventional wisdom was a challenge to what may be called "enculturated religion": religiou accomodated to conventional wisdom and increasingly shaped by those who were the beneficiaries of conventional wisdom. When this happens, religion becomes a legitimator of a way of life rather than invitation to a new way of lofe. In short, it was the world of conventional wisdom as the center of identity and security that was negated. In this sense, the teaching of Jesus is world denying; the world of culture as the center of existence comes to an end.
Third, Jesus' challenge to conventional wisdom must always be kept within the framework of his perception of reality as gracious and compassionate. His challenge must not be seen as a new requirement; when it is, his teaching becomes another form of conventional wisdom, sometimes a very severe one. Rather, his challenge is an invitation to see things as they really are--namely, at the heart of everything is a reality that is in love with us. Thus, though his way was the narrow way, "the eye of the needle," it was also somewhat paradoxically the easy way. It was hard especially for those who were secure within the framework of conventional wisdom; for them to die to the world meant letting go of a world which pronounced them "blessed." Yet his way was also the "easy yoke" for some, for those who were burdened by the world of culture: "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest; for my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
Post Edited (One Love) : 3/31/2010 1:19:56 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/31/2010 1:00 PM (GMT -6) | | Dallas Willard
Renovation of the Heart: Putting on the Character of Christ
Chapter 4: Radical Goodness Restored to the Soul
"Dead to Self"
Pages 71-72
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In the clear and forceful vision of Jesus and his kingdom, as our personality becomes progressively more reorganized around God and his eternal life, self-denial moves beyond more or less frequent acts to settled disposition and character.
At the first we must very self-consciously deny ourselves--reject the preeminence of what we want, when and as we want it--and we must look to quite specific motions of God's grace in and around us to guide and strenghten us in our occasions of self-denial. We will also need a wise and constant use of disciplines for the spiritual life. This is because, from where we start, the substance of our selves, formed in a world against God, is ready to act otherwise in all its dimensions, especially in the social and the bodily. Our very habits of thinking, feeling, and willing are wrongly poised. We shall say more about this later, and about how we can and must work with God in the process of spiritual (trans)formation.
But ther will come a time in the experience of the apprentice of Jesus where it is appropriate to speak of our being dead to self. There is no one way this comes to us, I think, and the language here must be handled carefully. It has been the source of must misunderstanding and harm in the past. But the fact that it represents is a fundamental, indispensible element in the renovation of the heart, soul, and life. Being dead to self is the condition where the mere fact that I do not get what I want does not surprise or offend me and has no control over me. Faithful servants of God know the secret, and many have left their testimony. George Mueller of Bristol, England, said, "There was a day when I died: died to George Mueller, his opinions, preferences, tastes, and will; died to the world, its approval or censure; died to the approval or blame even of my brethren and friends, and since then, I have studied only to show myself approved unto God." Small wonder that one said of Mueller that he "had the twenty-third psalm written in his face."
We often speak of those who sleep soundly as being "dead to the world." By that, we mean that what is happening around them does not disturb them, that they are unconscious of it and are doing nothing with reference to it. There is an important lesson here. (OL's Note: I can't help thinking about Jesus sleeping soundly in the storm-tossed boat with the disciples. I bet THAT was a work of the Spirit, too!)
The one who is dead to self will certainly not even notice some things that others would--for example, things such as social slights, verbal putdowns and innuendos, or physical discomforts. But many other rebuffs to "the dear self," as the philosopher Immanuel Kant called it, will be noticed still, often quite clearly. However, if we are dead to self to any significant degree, these rebuffs will not take control of us, not even to the point of disturbing our feelings or peace of mind. We will, as St. Francis of Assisi said, "wear the world like a loose garment, which touches us in a few places and there lightly."
Does this mean that the person who is dead to self is without feeling? Does Christ commend the famous "apathy" of the Stoic or the Buddhist elimination of desire? Far from it. The issue is not just feeling or desire, but right feeling or desire, or being controlled by feeling and desire. Apprentices of Jesus will be deeply disturbed about many things (OL Note: Jesus wept.) and will passionately desire many things (OL Note: Father, let this cup pass befor Me.), but they will be largely indifferent to the fulfillment of their own desires as such. Merely getting their way has no significance for them, does not disturb them. (OL Note: Not my will, but Your will be done.)
They know that "God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28). They do not have to look out for themselves because God--and not they--is in charge of their life. They appropriately look after things that concern them, but they do not worry about outcomes that merely affect adversely their own desires and feelings. They are free to focus their efforts on the service of God and others and the furthering of good generally, and to be as passionate about such things as may be appropriate to such efforts.
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One Love
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| Posted 3/31/2010 1:26 PM (GMT -6) | | | Oh, yeah.
"And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
Post Edited (One Love) : 3/31/2010 1:29:21 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/31/2010 1:49 PM (GMT -6) | | What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. (OL's Note: Both death with Christ and life with Christ are only possible via the Holy Spirit!), We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
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If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.
Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Post Edited (One Love) : 3/31/2010 1:55:52 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 3/31/2010 4:08 PM (GMT -6) | | Definitely on, D!
A couple of thoughts...
We can never talk about what it means to walk dead to sin (and "sin" being any and all circumstances of Self and World opposed to God) without at the same time talking about walking in the life of Christ. You can't walk in death without walking in life. Why? Because (for the time being) death is not cessation of existence; it is separation. In other words, Satan, Sin, Self and Sickness have not ceased to exist, but they are on the other side of the cavern, just as Lazarus, when he died, was separated from the rich man, found on the other side of the cavern. Praise the Lord, there will come a time when all those four "S" evils will be done away with, and what a grand and glorious day that will be. We can see this separation truth in the Word:
Colossians 1:13 - He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred [separated] us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, (Boy, that's so huge!)
Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
II Corinthians 4:16 - So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. (Though Paul was addressing the daily stresses that would ultimately lead to physical death, his point is that there is something else that is going on in the inner man while the physical is deteriorating; that "something" is the on going reality of separation unto God and the spiritual life that can only come by such death.)
We start out transferred. It came about by death. And the reality of it continues until we die physically.
Another thought...
Whether it is by the results of an event or by life-long journey, what must happen, as I've noted elsewhere, is that one must come to the place where God reveals—gives revelation of—the truth of what we are talking about here. I cannot stress this point enough. Oh, many Christians are able to deal head-on with a "sin" or even with their overall approach to life—that is, to live more godly—but that is still not fully what we are talking about here. Without a clear awareness (a "revealing" ) from heaven, from God's Spirit to our spirit, we can grasp neither the experience of what Paul talked about in I Corinthians 2, and we can never truly understand the death Christ really died and how intimately His death affects us. Before I go on, let's look at I Corinthians 2.
And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him"-- these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
The issue here is that though common words are used to communicate among God's people, they are "spiritual" words; they require something else besides the powers of human reasoning in order to be understood. I was taught, as were most all of us, that it is by God's Spirit that I came to understand the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and it was I Cor 2 that really drove the point home. But...as most of us do, I put this truth on the back burner when it came to understanding so much of the rest of God's word. I figured that if I could understand it, now that I was a Christian, then I "had the Spirit" and that was all I needed. I had not paid attention to one of the most important prayers Paul every prayed...on behalf of Christians, some who were very, very deep in the things of the Lord. Here's the prayer:
Ephesians 1:15-23 - For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
Note: Paul had been praying for them ever since he heard of their faith. He didn't stop once he knew they were Christians well on their way. No, Paul's prayer reflects what each and everyone of us must receive if we are to ever know the true reality of what it means to walk in Christ. Ephesians is a very, very high epistle. You cannot "know" it without revelation and years of walking in said revelation. Oh, you can "understand" it without revelation, but you cannot "know" it, and that is the point.
Revelation doesn't have to be an "Oh my gosh" experience. I can be simply an "Ah! I see!" experience, but it has be something that reveals what common words can never reveal. The fact that so many Christians know their Bible and Christian theology well but know nothing about walking dead to sin is because it has never been revealed to them what this really means. So, what do they do? They continue struggling within the very arena in which they have been called out of ("Come out of her, my people" ), and they do so by the very strength that got them there in the first place! So why, then, hasn't God revealed said truths about being dead to sin...truly dead to (separated from) it? Why are so many Christians struggling?
My next thought...
One big reason is because when all is said and done, Self does NOT want to let go. Oh, it will let go enough to glory in God and thank Him for His salvation, for His victory, for His Word, for this, that and the other, but deep, deep down Self still hangs on and clings to itself, tightly. The cry of many Christians goes up: "O Lord, I hate my sin and I hate sinning against you," and these cries are true, but what is often (much too often) true as well is the subtle, hidden lie: "O Lord, I want to give all this up and be free." And here lies the truth of what's really going on in the average every-day Christian: he says he wants to let go, but in his heart there is still the desire to live in the old. A subtle, subtle truth, but a horrible one so many of us face and don't realize it as we should.
When the Christian reaches the place where he can truly say, "Lord, Like Moses, I am willing to part with all the pleasures of Egypt (sin)," it is then when revelation about one's death in Christ can be given more fully, because will it not be trampled upon. For the Christian will truly be able to walk in a real newness of life and take authority over Satan, Sin, Self and Sickenss BECAUSE THAT CHRISTIAN NOW REALLY WANTS TO!
Some Christians have walked into these truths early on and it is so much a part of their life that they don't know anything else. But it seems that those are few and far between. It seems, rather, that the norm is for Christians to fight like a dog with themselves, truly hating what they do and how ugly can be, but at a loss, as demonstrated by years and years of failure, to know what to do about it. And so the vicious cycle continues. Self is still ruling.
To close...
We should also be aware that just because revelation comes that doesn't mean the Christian is Mr. "I've got it all down" overnight. Like any habit formed, it takes some repetition before the habit is secure. Oddly enough, walking in life is very habitual...very much a habitat! The key, then, is not expecting victory overnight; the key, rather, is to have revealed to you the truth about your real position in Christ: dead and done with the old, alive and very much in the new.
Note the heart of Jesus in Luke 11:9-13 regarding this matter - And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
And finally...
II Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
It is true: we really are dead and separated from anything and everything that is in opposition to God. We only must be willing, truly willing, to let go, to ask for revelation, and to never again believe the lies Satan would play us for in order to bring about doubt, fear and unbelief into our hearts. The game is up! It's high time we find out who we are in Him!
Rev 12:11 - And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 4/1/2010 2:13 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 4/1/2010 5:04 PM (GMT -6) | | A prayer...
Oh Lord, our God,
You who care for us,
So much that You have sent us a Savior,
He who alone was, and is, able to save and deliver us from our own selves.
Help us, Oh Lord, to want to not want to hang on to the old.
Help us, Oh Lord, to reach that place where we truly are wanting and willing
To give up and let go of any and all things that are from the old and do not exist in the new.
Reveal to us, Oh Lord, what sits deep in the recesses of our heart,
Which we have kept, that which stays, separating between You and us.
And Lord, show us how dependent we are on You to reveal all truth to us.
Never allow us to seek understanding without bowing our heads to You
And asking that Your Holy Spirit be the one to speak to our most inner man; our spirit.
Never let us forget, Oh Lord, that your word and your heart are manna to our souls
Only when your gracious bread comes from heaven and not earth. | | Back to Top | | |
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