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One Love
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| Posted 6/2/2010 9:15 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Looks like you anticipated this, Tom...be blessed, homie...
| Posted By : Tom - 11/9/2009 5:49 AM |
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How do we define the human ‘spirit’ dispositionally?
The human spirit is the created complex of dispositions that aim at relating to God in the perception and enjoyment of aesthetic satisfaction. The human spirit is thus how we participate in the life of God. It’s a particular kind of relationality. It is dispositional openness to apprehend and experience the beauty of triune love. The human spirit includes the disposition to self-perceive (i.e., construct a ‘self’, the meaning of one’s existence in the world) and to relate one’s self to oneself and then ground that self in God. The resulting identity or meaning which the concrete determinate form that these dispositions take is what we can the 'person'.
One is spiritually dead just so long as one’s constructing a meaning or self not grounded in God. But the capacity to ground one’s self in God, to relate to God, remains. Spiritual death doesn’t mean the capacities for relating to God are non-existent. Spiritual death is existential despair and angst, which are the necessary consequence of any attempt to construct a meaning for one’s existence (a view of the ‘self’) outside the ground of one’s being—God. So spiritual death is the experience of ungrounded existence.
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What I want to say is that the dispositional capacities unique to human being which equip it for communion with God aim at a concrete actualization of aesthetic satisfaction. These unique capacities are what we call the RWE complex (reason, will, emotion/evaluative capacities). But being dispositions, they ‘aim’ at a particular actualization of aesthetic satisfaction. They MUST world-construct, self-construct. It is their nature to coalesce into some definitive express of uniqueness and meaning in the world. But only when they aim at achieving their aesthetic appetite in God does their concrete determinate form coalesce into a true personal identity. So ‘person’ (in the full, theological sense) becomes the concrete form of dispositional tendencies at rest in their God-given subjective aim of participating in God.
So then, while the dispositional tendencies per se are ‘nature’ (RWE complex), what they are is a tendency and longing for some unique identity, some place in the world, some concrete determinate form of existence, i.e., some ‘person’. Like I’ve always said, we dispose of our natural capacities in an attempt to either secure of express personal identity. Every choice (exercise of nature) is an attempt at or expression of personhood. So ‘person’ is just the concrete determinate form of ‘nature’. This is standard EO thought. So while ‘spirit’ isn’t ‘person’ (i.e., ‘person’ isn’t equivalent to ‘nature’), person is some particularized, concrete determinate form of nature.
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This + the Hexagon + reasoning of the Aesthetic Argument + EO View of Grace = Irrevocability of the "spiritual" being's ability to "perceive and enjoy God" and the metaphysical grounding (creaturely speaking) for EUR of all "spiritual" beings.
The seeds were already there, bro.
Good show, Brother Turtle. 
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/2/2010 9:26:06 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/2/2010 9:29 PM (GMT -6) | | | ...but the joyful morning dawn, once broken through the darkest night of the soul...shall never end. Just like love never ends.
Typically for a believer in the dark night of the soul, spiritual disciplines (such as prayer and consistent devotion to God) suddenly seem to lose all their experiential value; traditional prayer is extremely difficult and unrewarding for an extended period of time during this "dark night." The individual may feel as though God has suddenly abandoned them or that his or her prayer life has collapsed. It is important to note however that the presence of doubt is not tantamount to abandonment -- there is strongly Biblical tradition of authentic confusion before God (Psalms 13, 22, and 34 display King David, the 'man after God's own heart' undergoing serious confusion and anguish at God, yet this is not condemned or mentioned as unfaithful, but rather the only measure of faith that David could have in the face of such withering abandonment).
Rather than resulting in devastation, however, the dark night is perceived by mystics and others to be a blessing in disguise, whereby the individual is stripped (in the dark night of the senses) of the spiritual ecstasy associated with acts of virtue. Although the individual may for a time seem to outwardly decline in their practices of virtue, they in reality become more virtuous, as they are being virtuous less for the spiritual rewards (ecstasies in the cases of the first night) obtained and more out of a true love for God. It is this purgatory, a purgation of the soul, that brings purity and union with God.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/2/2010 9:35:02 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/2/2010 10:19 PM (GMT -6) | | | 1) God Himself (Love) is personally "residing" within every spiritual being.
2) Every spiritual being is unceasingly beautiful to God.
These are IMMUTABLE ASPECTS of the Uncreated Creator Spirit/Created Spirit bi-polar assymetrical relationship, given God being the Supreme Beauty and spiritual beings being image-bearers of that Supreme Beauty.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/2/2010 10:22:40 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/2/2010 10:22 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/2/2010 10:57 PM (GMT -6) | | | Funny. 1st JasonPratt post talking about EUR...
2.1.) Do I have metaphysical grounds for believing that God will surely accomplish this goal ? -- Metaphysically, so far as I can tell, I would have to answer no. Nor do I have metaphysical grounds for believing He will surely fail to accomplish this goal. This is where human free will first kicks into play; and I wish to point out that Arminianistic theologians who stress free will damnation have a peculiar tendency to turn around and eventually deny that same free will in order to make sure that sooner or later there can be no repentance!--even in cases, like Lewis, where they still affirm that God is still doing His best to love the sinner even in hell. (But there's no hope in that anymore because the sinner has resolutely locked himself into a position where even God cannot succeed in leading him to repentance anymore.)
Hmm...
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/2/2010 11:00:50 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 6/3/2010 9:51 AM (GMT -6) | | I say, let the festivities begin! Well, not quite yet but lets start preparing for the party.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:01 AM (GMT -6) | | Beer? Cigars? Pretzels anyone?
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:01 AM (GMT -6) | | |
Something totally random...
I heard this quote on a children's program this morning...and I thought about it:
"It's not easy having a best friend you can't get close to."
I was like WOW. Imagine if you had the fundamental two-storey belief that it was IMPOSSIBLE for God and humanity to get "close enough" to be best friends (regardless to what the Bible actually says ala Moses, Abraham, David, etc.) because God is Infinite and Holy...and we are finite and sinful. It's almost assumed that the "infinite divide" is so deep because of God's transcendence and our sin, that full intimacy of God with a sinner seems absolutely impossible in our minds. Think about WHY the people tried to stone Jesus when all he was doing was articulating what was in THEIR Scriptures! (John 10:22-39) God is in Heaven...Humans are on earth...and never shall the twain fully meet. Just standard assumption of religious conventional wisdom.
How can you "Love the Lord your God with all your Heart, Soul, Mind, and Strength" when you REALLY DON'T believe you and God can ever been intimate...because of who you THINK God is and who you THINK you are?
How hard would it be for that person to ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the ALL-HOLY God WANTS to be their best friend and in DEEPEST INTIMACY with them?
Wouldn't it almost be IMPOSSIBLE? (Mark 10:17-31)
Enter Jesus.
No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.
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“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/3/2010 10:20:37 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:11 AM (GMT -6) | | I think of the story of the Rich Young ruler. Here, Jesus let him go without recieving the beautiful gift of salvation. But in light of UR its as if Jesus knew there was another day a-coming. We don't have to force people into decisions.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Now THAT would be the "Church!"
Not this...
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
I liked your term, Tom: Burning coals of sizzling truth.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:24 AM (GMT -6) | | Totally. I use to have one of the coolest pastors who talked about this back in the 80's. Why can we not be anxious and leave it up to God to do his part? Why must we stress our lives out believing we "got to get the job done?" I mean I already have enough stress in my life without the Church telling me the ship is sinking so I better get to work of evangelism old school style.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:28 AM (GMT -6) | | | "Working for the Lord" ala Missions and Socio-Political Work would NOT be used as leverage for a Christian to try to PURCHASE a good relationship with God by their supposed "good works." Works grounded much more out of SELF-PRESERVATION before God than SELF-GIVING to God grounded in love for God. Salvation as "Get-out-of-God's-wrath-free" card.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
(Hint: They didn't go by the Royal Law of Love...which made it all nothing. See 1 Corinthians 13!)
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:33 AM (GMT -6) | | Brandon:
Why can we not be anxious and leave it up to God to do his part? Why must we stress our lives out believing we "got to get the job done?" I mean I already have enough stress in my life without the Church telling me the ship is sinking so I better get to work of evangelism old school style.
Honestly? Because we believe that we do not TRUST God to do his part. Period.
When humans really trust something, they don't practice the opposite. For example, I trust that all the air in this room is not gonna collapse into a finite area, killing me...thus I'm not trying to keep oxygen masks on deck. I trust that the air will be just fine...and I act as such.
We believe that God WILL fail us...and that we HAVE to make it on our own. We are so grounded in the two-storey Matrix...that we cannot really "see" all the things that God does NOT fail at ON OUR BEHALF all the time! (ie the continuall sustanence of the universe by his personal love, etc)
Think about it. A significant amount of Western Christians are PRACTICAL DEISTS (if not practical ATHEISTS, as Greg has said before) for the most part, right? What do that show?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/3/2010 10:36:39 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:36 AM (GMT -6) | | The way I see it OL? I'm not just preparing souls but a garden. There's more to our Christian life than evangelism.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:47 AM (GMT -6) | | Gordon Fee taks about Christians being deists, practical atheists, in his works. Very important point. Imagine that. Doing CHRISTIAN ministry WITHOUT God's help. Working for the Lord in our own strenght.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
Post Edited (BBBCanada) : 6/3/2010 10:50:33 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:51 AM (GMT -6) | | Think about the Aesthetic Argument now...about how we are created to be perceivers and enjoyers of God.
Humanity and the whole creation do participate in the energies of God across the basic diastema, and it is through this participation that humans form the image of matter: matter is the energies of God, made palpable to our senses and our intellectual grasp.
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Ultimately, humans, as a divine image, were granted reason in order to be in a dialogical relationship with another reason, the reason of God.
Alexei Nesteruk
Light from the East.
Page 105
In other words, created matter/energy is nothing less than GOD HIMSELF at work in and for Creation via the Creator Spirit. We are to "see" this as God's Love given to us, lovingly RECEIVE that Love, and offer it back to him SACRIFICALLY (Romans 12:1-2) as good stewards of God's CONTINUALLY GIFTING OF HIMSELF to us, via God's Energies.
It all ties together.
But this is a MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE VIEW from any two-storey concept of the Uncreated/Created relationship. (Deism included.)
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/3/2010 10:56:39 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 6/3/2010 10:57 AM (GMT -6) | | Ultimately, humans, as a divine image, as a divine image, were granted reason in order to be in a dialogical relationship with another reason, the reason of God. reason of God.
Except for some girls I know. :-)
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
Post Edited (BBBCanada) : 6/3/2010 11:07:25 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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