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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/3/2010 10:28 AM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/4/2010 9:25 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/5/2010 8:13 AM (GMT -6) | | Good stuff, B. I'm loving this one...
Kind of Virtues that Surround Prayer
I will teach you what sort of virtues should surround your prayer, or what sort of prayerful, virtuous life a Christian should plant in himself, not in my own words, but in the words of the holy hierarch Dimitri of Rostov, who briefly lists these things in the following instructions (from Christian Spiritual Instruction, part 1, p. 288):
1. When you wake up, let your first thought be about God, your first word be a prayer to God your creator and keeper of your life, Who is always able to give life or destroy it, who can strike with illness and heal, and who can save or destroy.
2. Bow and give thanks to God Who raised you from sleep, and Who did not allow you to perish in your sins, but with long-suffering awaited your repentance.
3. Make a start for better things, saying with the Psalmist: "I said, now I have made a beginning" (Ps. 76.11) For no one completes the path to heaven except he who makes a good beginning everyday.
4. From the morning pray like the Seraphim, act like the Cherubim, and be surrounded with angels.
5. Do not waste time any longer. Do only those things which are necessary.
6. In all deeds and words, keep your mind in God; do not write anything in your mind except Christ, and let no image touch your pure heart except the pure image of Christ our God and Savior.
7. Awaken yourself to the love of God in all things, whenever you are able, especially say to yourself with the Psalmist: "in my meditation a fire was kindled" (Ps. 38.4).
8. You desire to love God, Whose visitation you always see and gaze upon with your interior eyes, therefore turn away from all evil deeds, words, and thoughts. Do, say, and think all things honorably, humbly, and with the fear of a son.
9. Let meekness with praise and humility with honor be together.
10. Let your words be quiet, humble, honorable, and useful. Let silence decide the words that you say. From henceforth, let no empty or rotten word escape your lips.
11. If something funny happens, allow yourself only a smile, and this not often.
12. You will fall into prodigality through anger, wrath, and arguing: keep yourself moderate in anger.
13. Always observe moderation in eating and drinking.
14. Be condescending in all things, and God will bless you, and people will praise you.
15. You must pray about your death, which is the end of all things.
See what sort of wonderful life is taught to the praying Christian.
It is true that in one place we have spoken more about prayer, that is, of mental and heart-felt turning to God, but in another place, other virtues have been mentioned, and yet without all of them together, it is impossible to get a foothold in prayer.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 6/5/2010 12:59 PM (GMT -6) | | That list has important principles that I find so important.
One of the recent exploits my time in prayer has experienced is the understanding of a quiet mind. So many thoughts. So many trivial and racing movements perpetrate the mind.
I began to notice these one day not while busy about the day but while praying. So strange was how prior I had not noticed the randomness and meaninglessness of so many thoughts while praying. Oh, I would recognize my mind wandering, but that's not what I mean. What I'm talking about is both a recognition of and a movement out of the arena of the mind's thoughts and business.
Just sitting in prayer and concentrating, listening, as if listening for a sound, but listening for a spiritual sound I discovered, like grabbing a fly in mid-air, how I was now able to grab my thoughts out of mid-air. Now in tune and on the right frequency with God, it didn't matter if God spoke or not. What did matter was that my mind and heart were both calm and under control. Not "under control" as in prohibiting, but as in having left that place where thoughts can disturb. (It starts with getting control, but it continues in simply having left the arena where thoughts are plenty.) At peace, in quietness, and calm in both mind and heart.
Well, no sense in just having this mind only when praying! oh, so busy our mind is at all times, is it not?. So many passing and racing thoughts. So much void-and-prohibited meaninglessness. So much unnecessary activity...activity which in fact robs one of the the Spirit's place and of His desire to bring peaceable fruit: the Spirit of calm; the Spirit of quiet; the Spirit of rest; the Spirit of peace; the Spirit of God!
Like any habit formed, it takes a bit of practice (do something about seven times, they say, and it becomes a habit). Soon the mind becomes accustomed to the cessation of garbage infiltrating its domain. There is peace in and lightness of spirit. Ah, but there is something else: the challenge of becoming that which Theophan notes: someone, whose business (of mind) being at rest, who has become tamed and subdued inside but quite possibly a "bore" to those looking from without.
My own personality, as one who is dominantly a melancholy and sub-dominantly a sanguine, is one which, when untamed and out of control (that is, if the thought life is left to fend for itself) is overly dark at one moment and overly lit up the next moment. Now, however, I find myself in neither situation, but only at peace. Perhaps, though, people who know me will now find me a bore. Perhaps they will say that I lack personality. Perhaps I will be perceived as having lost my sense of humor because I only smile rather than frequently laugh heartily. (It isn't that I am stultifying myself; it is that I am just acutely aware of what truly calls for laughter, what truly calls for darkness, what truly calls for sorry and what truly calls for happiness.
The reality, for me at least, is that I have accepted being perceived in any context in which one will see me. I am not concerned any longer with how I am perceived, but only with what am I being. To be a person of true spiritual peacefulness, calmness, lightness of spirit, and restfulness is what God needs in all of us. In that environment, He is that much more free to swim and surge through our being with His love, joy and fellowship in His Spirit.
That's why that list speaks much to me,
Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/8/2010 8:06 AM (GMT -6) | | Starkman:
Just sitting in prayer and concentrating, listening, as if listening for a sound, but listening for a spiritual sound I discovered, like grabbing a fly in mid-air, how I was now able to grab my thoughts out of mid-air. Now in tune and on the right frequency with God, it didn't matter if God spoke or not. What did matter was that my mind and heart were both calm and under control. Not "under control" as in prohibiting, but as in having left that place where thoughts can disturb. (It starts with getting control, but it continues in simply having left the arena where thoughts are plenty.) At peace, in quietness, and calm in both mind and heart.
Thanks for all this, Starky!
One thing that this shows is clear: Your personal existence is NOT exhaustively your thoughts or feelings, or any composition of the two. If anything you are the area of "silent space" and "strategic allocation of attention" that perceives and pursues a "sense of importance and interest(s)" within your human mind/brain unity that is ABLE to recognize, focus upon, and choose certain thoughts accordingly.
Unconscious egoic operation in human beings ASSSUMES that we are ONLY our thoughts, feelings, and any derivative of those things (meaning our "characters", or personal stories about ourselves). At this point, a human being completely identifies with their personality or "biological hypostasis." (This is pretty much the human potential for selfhood actualizing "individuality" rather than "personhood" ). But...We are so much more than that. Reposting...
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The Christian "self" can say this:
"Who I truly am includes, yet transcends, my mind/brain unity or any of it's activities, including the emergence of my self-referential, self-reflective loop, called my ego. I HAVE a human mind. However, the totality of who I am isn't exhausted by my mental, psychological, or emotional activity. Moreover, that aspect of me that transcends (yet finds embodiment in) my mind/brain unity is in a continuous dependent, transparent, and reciprocal love relationship with the personal Source of my being, the Uncreated Creator Spirit, also the Holy Spirit of the Risen God-man Jesus."
But we cannot know that we are more than our self-referential self-narration going on in our MINDS...unless we experience STILLNESS. It is in stillness in God's Presence, living in our union with God, that we can experience our self-transcendence on a sustained, non-despairing level. When the mind is still in the heart, only "felt presence" exists in the human heart. Presence-in-presence. presence-in-Presence. In this, we discover the Personal Creator Spirit at the core of who we truly are...and the core of all particular things and/or systems in existence.
I think that this is what separates humans from every other animal: the capacity to self-reflectively experience one's own unique, incommunicable self-transcendence (particularity) and simulateneously, oneness with all things and be-ings (universality) through that self-transcendence. (Love the neighbor [universality] as oneself [particularity] )
IMO, this is why asceticism (hesychasm) is so important to Christianity...or spirituality in general. If the human being can't break enough away from biological hypostasis to understand that they TRULY ARE spiritual beings AND WHAT THAT MEANS...then we can never find out who we really are, and in so doing, find the rest and peace God want to give us: our FULL humanity in Christ-the-Logos.
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This is why human beings can CHANGE their PERSONAL "CHARACTER" ACTIVITY from the false self-preoccupied self to the True God-preoccupied Self in Christ.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/8/2010 8:17:55 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/8/2010 8:37 AM (GMT -6) | | Starkman:
Well, no sense in just having this mind only when praying! oh, so busy our mind is at all times, is it not?. So many passing and racing thoughts. So much void-and-prohibited meaninglessness. So much unnecessary activity...activity which in fact robs one of the the Spirit's place and of His desire to bring peaceable fruit: the Spirit of calm; the Spirit of quiet; the Spirit of rest; the Spirit of peace; the Spirit of God!
Think about something, Starky. I trust you've been following everything about the Eastern View of Grace and all that. Basically, all created matter/energy is nothing more or less than God's Personal Presence (via the Creator Spirit) working to create the context for "perception and enjoyment of aesthetic satisfaction" by creaturely consciousness. So, take that into account with what I say here, ok?
When you think about the "stillness" that exists as the "space" where the thoughts, feelings and impressions occur...and you JUST focus on that...how would one distinguish that "stillness" from someone else's...or ANYONE else's? In the actual state of the stillness, how could you SUBJECTIVELY say it was "your" stillness and only "yours". Not talking about the "strategic allocation of attention." That IS yours. But what about that space of awareness BEFORE that choice?
Just feel me now. Gonna get weird here.
We know, scientifically, that all atoms are composed of mostly EMPTY SPACE. Like 99.9repeating% or something like that. So, in a very literal sense, everything really is no-thing. If we were to just focus on the SPACE in everything, we'd basically see everything as UNDIFFERENTIATED FIELD of silent space, right? But that's just it...that still, silent space ISN'T absolute nothing. It is a FIELD OF EXPERIENCE.
Does it make more sense to think that...
1) there MULTIPLE "fields of experience" LOCALLY LIMITED solely to the sphere of human mind/brains...
OR...
2) there a SINGULAR, NON-LOCAL "field of experience" in which all human mind/brains participate?
I'm really asking the question.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/8/2010 8:47:59 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/8/2010 8:55 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for Goswami, Tom.
Realize that the self of our self-reference is due to a tangled hierarchy (OL's Note: Strange Loop) but our consciousness is the consciousness of the Being that is beyond the subject-object split. There is no other source of consciousness in the universe. The self of self-reference and the consciousness of the original consciousness, together, make what we can self-consciousness.
Amit Goswami
The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates the Material World
Self-Reference: How the One Becomes Many
"Paradoxes and Tangled Hierarchies"
Page 187
What "Being" (Christianly speaking) would ground this original "consciousness" or "field of experience"...but God the Logos, who was the "firstborn of all Creation"?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/8/2010 9:00:22 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/8/2010 9:46 AM (GMT -6) | | | Repost from long ago...and note...
| Posted By : One Love - 5/21/2008 11:43 AM |
Tom:
I don't mind saying we 'emerge' from the activity of the energies of God. I think there's something in emergent studies that might help us here, but I'm a long way from really understanding that either.
You said that long ago. That you wanted to say that the human soul is an EMERGENT REALITY (not emergent "property." You had a fit about that!) from the various constellations of God's energies that make up the context of that emergence. That the emergent reality wasn't reducible to the "energies" that made it up. We are our context...and we are MORE than our context.
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The human mind/brain consciousness (Loder's "ego periphery" ) is an emergent reality of self-consciousness not reducible to Uncreated Presence or the "field of experience" that is Creation...but it is INSEPARABLE from them in bi-polar assymetrical relational unity that has the potential for "new being in Christ the Logos."
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 6/8/2010 1:37 PM (GMT -6) | | One Love said...
Starkman:
Does it make more sense to think that...
1) there MULTIPLE "fields of experience" LOCALLY LIMITED solely to the sphere of human mind/brains...
OR...
2) there a SINGULAR, NON-LOCAL "field of experience" in which all human mind/brains participate?
I'm really asking the question.
I don't do well (thinking) in these kinds of discussion, but it seems to me that would not do well to mingling mind and brain, two entities which do not function either in or with the same faculties.
A brain functions physiological; a mind metaphysical. How, then, am I supposed to attribute the action of atomic structure to the mind other than in regard to the mind being housed (as far as I can tell) in the brain?
What space and local I am in or exist in whether I am mentally busy or not is, I believe, solely in and of me and unconnected with anyone else; because I do not see the need nor the place to actualize the mind's activity in any other construct than that of my own mind. My mind reflects not others but me; not someone else's egoic reality, but mine; and not someone else's field of experience, but mine alone among (the creaturely order).
So with regard to the mind, I would choose the first of your two choices. However, with regard to the brain—that is, the atomic structure through-in/through-out the universe...hmm....maybe the second choice.
Thanks,
Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/8/2010 3:33 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for ridin' with me, Starky. I know I get weird.  Some questions...
1) Can you have the human mind emerge into existence without the human brain?
2) Could the Jew "Jesus of Nazereth" have ever existed without the ego periphery that emerged from his human brain within space-time?
3) Does the resurrected "Jesus" still HAVE his human brain?
If no to 1 and 2, and yes to 3...then it's meaningful to talk about a human mind/brain relational unity in a particular human being.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/8/2010 6:19:36 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/8/2010 7:16 PM (GMT -6) | | Starkman:
If I'm correctly anticipating where you're going with this, I'd still say that one's mind is distinct and not a part of another human's mind, in any form or fashion.
I'm not saying that human mental/psychological activity is not distinct from another. I'm saying that the distinct uniqueness of said activity exists within the human mind/brain relational unity in the particular human being, both unglorified and glorified. I do think that all human mind/brain relational unities share the same background "field of experience" in Creation.
By the way, I wanted to make sure of something.
1. Did your human mind pre-exist your brain in your material body? Basically, do you believe in pre-existent souls?
2. Are you saying that you don't believe the Resurrected Body of Jesus has a brain in it? You do believe the Risen Jesus rose BODILY and still has FLESH (ability to eat fish, etc...) , right?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/8/2010 7:23:23 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 6/8/2010 9:58 PM (GMT -6) | | One Love said...
I'm not saying that human mental/psychological activity is not distinct from another. I'm saying that the distinct uniqueness of said activity exists within the human mind/brain relational unity in the particular human being, both unglorified and glorified. I do think that all human mind/brain relational unities share the same background "field of experience" in Creation.
By the way, I wanted to make sure of something.
1. Did your human mind pre-exist your brain in your material body? Basically, do you believe in pre-existent souls?
2. Are you saying that you don't believe the Resurrected Body of Jesus has a brain in it? You do believe the Risen Jesus rose BODILY and still has FLESH (ability to eat fish, etc...) , right?
Hey D.,
No, I don't believe in pre-existent souls, and no, I do not believe that Jesus' body has a brain, if by "brain" you mean the same material functioning in the same exact manner and capacity in which it functioned when He was alive on earth. I mean, He lost is blood, and I don't see any reason to theorize that He has a new supply running through his veins, and I don't believe He has to eat to live, so that eliminates the nutritional requirements of a human body, so I see no reason to constrain His resurrected body any other capacities that would confine it to his pre-resurrected body.
The resurrection is not about the need to insist that Jesus' body is exactly as it was before He died; it is about insisting that He was greater than death, and that by raising the core of that body He was able to demonstrate both power of human-body life and but power to create a "new" and different body. That's what we are promised in the resurrection of our bodies; something different than this body. Something greater in purpose and focus, which could never be accomplished in the limitations of a standard human body.
Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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