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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 11:14 AM (GMT -6) |   | | I came to this in thinking about meditation and hesychasm lately.
It begins with a belief that, Christianly speaking, I believe this is true for every human being...
"I transcend my embodiment (ie. time, space, matter, energy) and use it for transcendent purposes. I am not merely my brain or it's activities."
If this is true for the human "I", what is the personal, existential experience of this truth? It at least has to mean that I transcend the memories of personal experience embodied in my human mind/brain relational unity. The statement itself is "map". What is the "territory" experience of this truth?
I think it has to deal with "unknowing" and "silence" from the side of the human/brain mind's experience...where consciousness of "free of images."
That which truly transcends time, space, matter, and energy is not where created, measurable vibrations are, nor where ego "world composition" is occuring in the brain. It would be nothing found in any thing in time, space, matter, and energy.
Here's the deal. If every person on the planet were to have the deepest experience of what that "territory" is, how many "beings" would there be?
In other words, how would you tell one being from another at that level of truth? Yes, each indivdual mind/brain will be having it's own irreducibly unique and particular experience as a "self." But for the statement to be true, one cannot use the particularized human mind/brain or it's activities as a marker for the differentiation of hypostatic experience. Meaning one cannot use any experience dealing with thoughts and/or feelings as a differentiation of hypostatic experience.
In short, one cannot use the THOUGHT or BELIEF "I am separate from other people's bodies" as a actual starting point for personal differentiation between humans Just like one cannot use the THOUGHT or BELIEF "I am separate from the rest of the universe" as an actual starting point for ontological differentiation of a human being and the universe.
So, if we were to approximate the experience, wouldn't it have to deal with the SILENCE behind the "vibrations" of the universe? So, the only experience that could meet the "territory" is unknowing and silence. The one who is actively choosing unknowing silence.
How does one distinguishing a particular "unknowing, silent one" from another...if it is true that all human beings authentically transcend their bodies (matter, energy, time, space)"?
Just think about it for a sec.
Now think of the following words...
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Ready for it?
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Ok...
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non-locality
subjectivity
consciousness
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So...
What grounds the non-locality of consciousness among human beings? How many "fields of subjectivity" are there on Earth?
Again...really...REALLY think about it.
I'm having the thought that there is only ONE field of subjectivity that is SHARED among multiple mind/brain relational unities.
What this would seem to mean is that there is ONE non-local "subject" that, in relating to each individual human mind/brain relational unity, grounds and empowers the emergence of all particular human ego peripheries and their personalities. Again, if there is some subjective element of each human being that transcends time, space, matter, and energy...I don't see how anything of time, space, matter, and energy could distinguish where one field of subjectivity ended and where another field of subjectivity began.
So, what is this ONE non-local "subject"? Well...
Reposting...remix
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Tom: Is there something new here D that you've not seen before? What's the new insight?More of a thought... "Adam Kadmon" (ie. God the Son as Divine Humanity, "God with us") the singular field of created consciousness from whence all other self-consciousnesses emerge in the universe, via the ego functionality of individual mind/brain relational unities in humans.
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Back into the deep...
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 11:58 AM (GMT -6) | | The best analogy I have for this is as follows:
Let's say that each cell and organ in your body, Tom, had not only it's own level of subjectivity, but also had the capacity for self-reference...being able to relate itself to itself such that it could see itself distinct from it's environment, the body. Basically, the cell would be AWARE of being a cell and being a part of a larger self-referencing reality: the organ. The organ would be AWARE of being an organ and being part of the self-referencing reality: the system. And each system (cirulatory, skeletal, etc) would be aware of itself and it's context: the body. Now your body is TRANSCENDED by the incorporeal aspect (your "soul") of your human hypostasis, which also has capacity for self-reference as it related to the body as a whole, each system, each organ, and each cell.
We'd actually say that your incorporeal aspect GROUNDS the subjectivity felt in each "whole" within your body. Imagine that each cell would self-reference in it's relationship the one incorporeal aspect in the body in an I-Thou manner...and vice versa. It seems obvious that the subjective experience of each cell would NOT be reducible to or identical with your soul's subjective experience. If the self-referential cell excreted some material, your soul would not say "I, the soul, excreted material from my cell wall." Nor would the cell, say "I, the cell, sustain the whole body." However, it would be undeniable that the cell's self-consciousness would be inseparable from the consciousness infused in the body by the soul, such that it would have no consciousness without the soul.
So....
Let...
human cell = individual human mind/brain relational unity, setting of personal consciousness and unconsciousness
organ/systems = setting for collective consciousness and unconsciousness
body = humanity as a whole
non-corporeal grounding of body = God the Son as "Adam Kadmon"
This means, Tom, that God the Son as "Immanuel" would NOT have a first person experience of being a sinner...nor would a non-incarnate human mind/brain relational unity have the conscious first person experience of being GOd. At the same time, the CONSCIOUSNESS of the non-incarnate human mind/brain relational unity is the SAME field of consciousness as "Immanuel." Multiple self-referencing persons in a SINGULAR field of consciousness, who is ALSO personal. Something else. If each self-referencing cell in the body were to practice "unknowing" and "silence", how would differentiation within the consciousness field take place? It couldn't be by any cell wall differentiation or anything.
Making sense?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/4/2010 12:12:32 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 12:19 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
This past weekend I was in Michigan attending the wedding of a good friend from High School. He was once a strong believer. Now he's an atheist and Neitzschean hook, line, and sinker. He asked me, "Why isn't this life enough?"
I was stumped. I could answer why it wasn't enough FOR ME, but I couldn't find anything definitive of our common human experience that demonstrated why this life wasn't enough. If I think on it some more, perhaps. But he just wasn't FEELING all the existential angst that Fr Zizy says is definitive of human existence considered in its pure finiteness. My friend Doug doesn't mind the finiteness at all. It's over when it's over and that's it.
I would agree with your friend that this life is enough. But I would say that Christianity gives a framework about WHY the present moment is "enough". In other words, there is a reason that there can be a sense of "no lack" in total participation in one's finitude. But atheism (implicitly removing ANY sense of the Transcendent) cannot begin to discern that reason...or locate HOW that satisfaction occurs.
I'm betting that the variation of Christianity that your friend participated with saw it mainly from perspective of the FUTURE (ala going up yonder to be with the Lord, two-storey view) rather than from the perspective of the PRESENT (Grace, one-storey view)
Am I right?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 12:35 PM (GMT -6) | | I believe that if Nietzche had known about process philosophy (particularly panexperientialism), he probably would have been a process theist.
His "will to power" goes too much with the process idea of subjectivity and creativity, basically the "will to be."
Does your friend know about panexperientialism?
Give him this... A friend of mine gave this to me
Step by step...
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/4/2010 12:41:04 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 8/4/2010 12:45 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 8/4/2010 12:53 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 1:02 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 1:59 PM (GMT -6) | | Sheesh. 
It re-presents Grey's view of the "Cosmic Christ", basically Christ the LOGOS, the "Oversoul" of Creation. If you look closely at the globe figure in the heart...you'll notice that Grey has crucified people around the central figure (the crucified Jesus) holding the world together through sacificial love. And the baby's head on the globe, that has a lion and a lamb on either side of it. Then below the globe, a Jesus figure with a dove coming upon him as he is healing someone.
Allusions all over.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/4/2010 2:06:33 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 7:12 PM (GMT -6) | | I know, I know. Alex Grey holds open the idea of intelligent life on other planets...and it shows in his work.
STILL...
The idea is that Christ is the "Oversoul" of all creation. The following picture is Alex Grey's "Oversoul". See the similiarity?
 Anyways, you never answered my question, homie. Does it make sense? Hehe.  PS: The open eyes in the picture stand for CONSCIOUSNESS (subjectivity) being the ground of all being.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 7:34 PM (GMT -6) | | You ain't never lied, dawg! Ha!!! 
But, given the ECC's policy about diverse beliefs, they BETTA not trip, even if I did! Did you know that the ECC doesn't have any affirmations or resolutions against Christ-centered universalism? I double-checked. Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaah. 
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/4/2010 7:37:29 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/4/2010 7:49 PM (GMT -6) | | "The self of our self-reference is due to a tangled hierarchy, but our consciousness is the consciousness of the Being that is beyond the subject-object split. There is no other source of consciousness in the universe. The self of self-reference and the conciousness of the original consciousness, together, make what we call self-consciousness."
Amit Goswami
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/4/2010 7:53:57 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/6/2010 2:04 PM (GMT -6) | | Hey, Tom.
David Bruce. (cited on the website)
Just emailed him to attempt to get his paper, "Universal Reconciliation and the Evangelical Covenant Church"
Hosts this website called HollywoodJesus. Check it out. (Background)
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/6/2010 2:08:17 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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