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PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 8/18/2010 8:40 AM (GMT -6)

QUESTIONS.........

from http://janotec.typepad.com/terrace/2010/08/moleskine-fragments.html

Is Christianity possible without ritual?

Does true belief demand a sacramental view?

A perception that is patient of mystery and symbol?

Can Vision by portrayed without Tradition?

Can Church live without Creed?

I know of some who think so, and I hope they can avoid their dismal conclusion.

(o)

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 8/18/2010 11:06 AM (GMT -6)

Hi B,

A bit more explanation along with the questions would help, but I’ll try.

B: Is Christianity possible without ritual?

T: I don’t think life is possible without some ritual. Rituals are, I think, an inevitable ‘way’ we live our lives. But you probably mean something more ‘sacramental’ by ‘ritual’. Your first two questions seem to be the same question to me, so I’m thinking that for you ‘rituals’ are by definition ‘sacramental’. For me they’re not. So I separate questions 1 and 2. Rituals are just repeating symbolic acts. I don’t think community existence is possible apart from rituals.

B: Does true belief demand a sacramental view?

T: True belief in what? I’m guessing you mean true Christian faith. Well, do you really want to say that all non-sacramentalists (say, all Evangelicals) are unbelievers and are going to hell? No So then, true belief doesn’t demand any opinion on the sacramental/non-sacramental debate.

B: A perception that is patient of mystery and symbol?

T: What’s the question?

B: Can Vision by portrayed without Tradition?

T: Yes. Otherwise traditions could never get started.

B: Can Church live without Creed?

T: What do you mean by creed? Do you mean ‘belief standards’ that define a ‘community’? No, I don’t think so. There have to be some minimal community defining beliefs for the Church.

B: I know of some who think so, and I hope they can avoid their dismal conclusion.

T: You know some who think what? That there have to be some minimal beliefs that define the community? What dismal conclusion follows from thinking communities all have some defining beliefs?

Blessings,
Tom

KIXYTΘEMTA

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 8/18/2010 11:13 AM (GMT -6)

OK, so "a perception that is patient of mystery and symbol" is what you mean (or your brother?) by a "sacramental view"?

I think sacramental means way more than mystery and symbol. Non-sacramental Evangelicals are cool with mystery and symbols, but that doesn't make 'em sacramentalists.

Also, I see he means to say that he knows some people who think that the Church can exist WITHOUT a creed. I agree with him, that's impossible. But I don't know of any believers in Jesus who really deny ALL belief requirements. I can't believe your brother knows some who think this!

Tom

KIXYTΘEMTA

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 8/18/2010 5:42 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks, Tom.

I'm taking meds, and seeing a counselor--both help.

And my elder son goes back to Bethel on Saturday. It's been so wonderful to have the two boys together!

Thanks again.

Love y'all.

(o)

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 8/18/2010 9:40 PM (GMT -6)

Enjoying the kids! Yes. Glad to hear it Bruce.

Hugs,
Tom

KIXYTΘEMTA

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