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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/19/2010 10:45 AM (GMT -6) |   | Wonderful. 
Thought: If this book really does describe the way of true Christianity, how thoroughly ANTI-Christian do the values and ideas of 21st century American society show themselves to be in contrast?
Why do you look for rest when you were born to work? Resign yourself to patience rather than to comfort, to carrying your cross rather than to enjoyment.
Always take the lowest place and the highest will be given you, for the highest cannot exist apart from the lowest. The saints who are greatest before God are those who consider themselves the least, and the more humble they are within themselves, so much the more glorious they are. Since they do not desire vainglory, they are full of truth and heavenly glory. Being established and strengthened in God, they can by no means be proud. They attribute to God whatever good they have received; they seek no glory from one another but only that which comes from God alone. They desire above all things that He be praised in themselves and in all His saints -- this is their constant purpose.
So much for being a Christian nation of any authenticity. 
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/19/2010 10:53:12 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 8/22/2010 2:50 PM (GMT -6) | | I have a copy of this book by Doubleday. I've always loved this part in the introduction of the book:
"Even at this early age Thomas yearned for education and the quiet life of reading and studying. His favorite motto is said to have been: 'I sought for rest but never found it, save in a little corner with a little book.' Perhaps he also felt even so early the call to the religious or the monastic life. Which of these two impulses was the more urgent we will never know. But what an important day it was for the whole history of Christian life and asceticism, even for the course of Western literature."
When I think of the state of evangelicalism and Christians with and in so-called "ministry" and I compare it to the simplicity of what I read here? I'll take this ANY DAY hands down.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 8/23/2010 2:18 AM (GMT -6) | | The Thirty-First Chapter
TO FIND THE CREATOR, FORSAKE ALL CREATURES
THE DISCIPLE
O LORD, I am in sore need still of greater grace if I am to arrive at the point where no man and no created thing can be an obstacle to me. For as long as anything holds me back, I cannot freely fly to You. He that said "Oh that I had wings like a dove, that I might fly away and be at rest!" desired to fly freely to You. Who is more at rest than he who aims at nothing but God? And who more free than the man who desires nothing on earth?
It is well, then, to pass over all creation, perfectly to abandon self, and to see in ecstasy of mind that You, the Creator of all, have no likeness among all Your creatures, and that unless a man be freed from all creatures, he cannot attend freely to the Divine. The reason why so few contemplative persons are found, is that so few know how to separate themselves entirely from what is transitory and created.
For this, indeed, great grace is needed, grace that will raise the soul and lift it up above itself. Unless a man be elevated in spirit, free from all creatures, and completely united to God, all his knowledge and possessions are of little moment. He who considers anything great except the one, immense, eternal good will long be little and lie groveling on the earth. Whatever is not God is nothing and must be accounted as nothing.
There is great difference between the wisdom of an enlightened and devout man and the learning of a well-read and brilliant scholar, for the knowledge which flows down from divine sources is much nobler than that laboriously acquired by human industry.
Many there are who desire contemplation, but who do not care to do the things which contemplation requires. It is also a great obstacle to be satisfied with externals and sensible things, and to have so little of perfect mortification. I know not what it is, or by what spirit we are led, or to what we pretend -- we who wish to be called spiritual -- that we spend so much labor and even more anxiety on things that are transitory and mean, while we seldom or never advert with full consciousness to our interior concerns.
Alas, after very little recollection we falter, not weighing our deeds by strict examination. We pay no attention to where our affections lie, nor do we deplore the fact that our actions are impure.
Remember that because all flesh had corrupted its course, the great deluge followed. Since, then, our interior affection is corrupt, it must be that the action which follows from it, the index as it were of our lack of inward strength, is also corrupt. Out of a pure heart come the fruits of a good life.
People are wont to ask how much a man has done, but they think little of the virtue with which he acts. They ask: Is he strong? rich? handsome? a good writer? a good singer? or a good worker? They say little, however, about how poor he is in spirit, how patient and meek, how devout and spiritual. Nature looks to his outward appearance; grace turns to his inward being. The one often errs, the other trusts in God and is not deceived.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/23/2010 2:45 AM (GMT -6) | | The Fifty-Third Chapter
GOD'S GRACE IS NOT GIVEN TO THE EARTHLY MINDED
THE VOICE OF CHRIST
MY CHILD, my grace is precious. It does not allow itself to be mixed with external things or with earthly consolations. Cast away all obstacles to grace, therefore, if you wish to receive its infusion.
Seek to retire within yourself. Love to dwell alone with yourself. Seek no man's conversation, but rather pour forth devout prayer to God that you may keep your mind contrite and your heart pure.
Consider the whole world as nothing. Prefer attendance upon God to all outward occupation, for you cannot attend upon Me and at the same time take delight in external things. You must remove yourself from acquaintances and from dear friends, and keep your mind free of all temporal consolation. Thus the blessed Apostle St. Peter begs the faithful of Christ to keep themselves as strangers and pilgrims in the world.[39]
What great confidence at the hour of death shall be his who is not attached to this world by any affection. But the sickly soul does not know what it is to have a heart thus separated from all things, nor does the natural man know the liberty of the spiritual man. Yet, if he truly wishes to be spiritual, he must renounce both strangers and friends, and must beware of no one more than himself.
If you completely conquer yourself, you will more easily subdue all other things. The perfect victory is to triumph over self. For he who holds himself in such subjection that sensuality obeys reason and reason obeys Me in all matters, is truly his own conqueror and master of the world.
Now, if you wish to climb to this high position you must begin like a man, and lay the ax to the root, in order to tear out and destroy any hidden unruly love of self or of earthly goods. From this vice of too much self-love comes almost every other vice that must be uprooted. And when this evil is vanquished, and brought under control, great peace and quiet will follow at once.
But because few labor to die entirely to self, or tend completely away from self, therefore they remain entangled in self, and cannot be lifted in spirit above themselves. But he who desires to walk freely with Me must mortify all his low and inordinate affections, and must not cling with selfish love or desire to any creature.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/23/2010 2:39 PM (GMT -6) | | Do y'all think that Christ was genuinely speaking to him here?
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The Forty-Second Chapter
PEACE IS NOT TO BE PLACED IN MEN
THE VOICE OF CHRIST
MY CHILD, if you place your peace in any creature because of your own feeling or for the sake of his company, you will be unsettled and entangled. But if you have recourse to the ever-living and abiding Truth, you will not grieve if a friend should die or forsake you. Your love for your friend should be grounded in Me, and for My sake you should love whoever seems to be good and is very dear to you in this life. Without Me friendship has no strength and cannot endure. Love which I do not bind is neither true nor pure.
You ought, therefore, to be so dead to such human affections as to wish as far as lies within you to be without the fellowship of men. Man draws nearer to God in proportion as he withdraws farther from all earthly comfort. And he ascends higher to God as he descends lower into himself and grows more vile in his own eyes. He who attributes any good to himself hinders God's grace from coming into his heart, for the grace of the Holy Spirit seeks always the humble heart.
If you knew how to annihilate yourself completely and empty yourself of all created love, then I should overflow in you with great grace. When you look to creatures, the sight of the Creator is taken from you. Learn, therefore, to conquer yourself in all things for the sake of your Maker. Then will you be able to attain to divine knowledge. But anything, no matter how small, that is loved and regarded inordinately keeps you back from the highest good and corrupts the soul.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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Asher
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Total Posts : 477
| Posted 8/23/2010 6:19 PM (GMT -6) | | Hey Dwayne,
You said: "Thought: If this book really does describe the way of true Christianity, how thoroughly ANTI-Christian do the values and ideas of 21st century American society show themselves to be in contrast?"
Before I comment any on a Kempis and what I think of his writing, I should probably slice open my own thoughts and lay them bare...I have actually been thinking on this a lot lately. When we say "true Christianity" is there some established idea of what that is? In other words...what is the minimum essential requirement to really say you are a Christian and for that to contain any meaning? To be honest with you, most Christians would probably not consider me a Christian...or at least they usually look on with a slant to their eyes when they hear what I actually believe, or don't believe. Unless I am interacting with another Christian it never really occurs to me that I am so different as to be classified not a Christian. The core allegiance that I have always had I still retain...Christ is my Lord, I seek His truth and character. But this is where it gets tricky.I take no pleasure in purposefully distancing myself from more traditional views of Christianity, but to be honest with myself and before God I have taken many positions that ARE distant from more traditional views. Not that there haven't been many Christian thinkers through the centuries that have not done likewise over some issue or another...but maybe I am stretching it to the breaking point, I don't know. For example, if one sect of Christians maintain in their practice that Propositions a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j are what comprise Christianity...and another sect of Christians (that the first sect acknowledge as also Christian) maintain in their practice that Propositions a,c,d,f,h,i,j,k,l are what comprise Christianity...and so on for many different sects, each with different sets of propositions about what Christianity is...what are the essentials that allows each sect to acknowledge the others as also Christian, but in a different way. And also, related to those same essentials...what allows them to say of someone that he is either 1) a Christian, but a heretic or 2) not really a Christian, but a cult.
And it gets really complex when you intersect one proposition with another. For example, let's say that Prop. a is something that seems to be common to all sects of Christianity. And that Prop. b is something that is, although not common to all sects, it is common to most sects, and that Prop. c is held by all other sects that do not hold Prop. b. And the confluence of either Props
a + b or a + c cause a particular slant upon what most Christians think about Prop a when they are only talking about Prop a...so that when I come along and affirm Prop a most every Christian thinks "Yeah, here's another Christian" But if we actually got to talking on a deeper level...and when I neither affirm Prop b or Prop c....they then are not so sure that I am a Christian...not because I don't affirm either Prop a or Prop b, but because I affirm neither...it causes them to look askance at my affirmation of Prop a...as if I don't mean the same thing they mean by Prop a...and I probably don't, since part of what Prop a for them is...is Prop a plus either Prop b or Prop c.
See the complexity? And so before I actually lay out anything that I believe or don't believe, let me ask you Dwayne...what do you think are the minimum requirements for being a Christian, including how some Props help define other Props, etc. This would actually be a great service to me (and if anyone else wants to have a go at it as well) ...not that I am, in myself, having any kind of crisis of faith (I actually feel whole and healthy (with regard to my belief system, not with regard to every aspect of my being) )...the crisis is more a social/relational one...I don't fit well with ANY established viewpoint within Christianity. And I am a little uncertain whether I am 1) simply a fringe Christian or 2) so far removed that it would be more honest to not call myself a Christian at all. Although the second option would not make it any easier to describe myself to others, since Christ is still central, even if my relationship with Him is somewhat different than most Christians.
So, I'll start us out with some simple common Propositions that I do affirm (I'll leave off how other Props affect the meaning of these things for now):
Prop a: I believe in the Trinity. Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit. All divine.
Prop b: God is the Creator and Ground of all being. The Everlasting Logos.
I'll leave it there, so not too much complexity starts to crop up.
What else do I need, do you think, in order to wholeheartedly say "I am a Christian"? | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/24/2010 1:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Asher:
So, I'll start us out with some simple common Propositions that I do affirm (I'll leave off how other Props affect the meaning of these things for now):
Prop a: I believe in the Trinity. Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit. All divine.
Prop b: God is the Creator and Ground of all being. The Everlasting Logos.
I'll leave it there, so not too much complexity starts to crop up.
What else do I need, do you think, in order to wholeheartedly say "I am a Christian"?
and...
The core allegiance that I have always had I still retain...Christ is my Lord, I seek His truth and character.
Well, obviously, there are a lot of beliefs that ground your a and b. Neither of them just stand alone. You really can't separate Jesus' current Lordship from his death and resurrection, right? And you can't separate any of this from some implicit doctrine of Scripture and tradition, right? But I'll stick with what you've got, assuming that you believe that God the Son as Jesus is the Incarnate Logos, Messiah, and Resurrected Lord of all Creation, established by God Himself.
The implications of all this, of course, would be Kempis' major theme: imitation of Christ, specifically because of what Jesus himself said...
"A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master."
...
"Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?"
...
“Do you understand what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you. Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him."
...
"Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
...
"If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."
The least that this means for any person that considers Jesus their "Lord" whom they love is 1) obeying/keeping the word and/or commandments of Jesus and 2) closely following his life example as protege/apprentice. This life example would include his disposition towards God His Father, his utter dependence on God's Spirit, and his Father-like compassion to all other human beings.
What this means is this: One cannot fully consider Jesus as "my Lord and my God" and actively choose to live outside of Jesus' life example and commandments. It's impossible.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/24/2010 1:28:14 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/24/2010 1:15 PM (GMT -6) | | | The Example...
"I am in the midst of you as he that serveth." Luke 22: 27.
In the Gospel of John we have the inner life of our Lord laid open to us. Jesus speaks frequently of His relation to the Father, of the motives by which He is guided, of His consciousness of the power and spirit in which He acts. Though the word humble does not occur, we shall nowhere in Scripture see so clearly wherein His humility consisted. We have already said that this grace is in truth nothing but that simple consent of the creature to let God be all, in virtue of which it surrenders itself to His working alone. In Jesus we shall see how both as the Son of God in heaven, and as man upon earth, He took the place of entire subordination, and gave God the honor and the glory which is due to Him- And what He taught so often was made true to Himself: "He that humbleth him: shall be exalted." As it is written, "He humbled Himself, therefore God highly exalted Him."
Listen to the words in which our Lord speaks of His relation to the Father, and how unceasingly He uses the words not, and nothing, of Himself. The not I, in which Paul expresses his relation to Christ, is the very spirit of what Christ says of His relation the Father.
"The Son can do nothing of Himself" (John 5: 19).
"I can of My own self do nothing; My judgment is just, because I seek not Mine own will" (John 5: 30).
"I receive not glory from men" (John 5: 41).
"I am come not to do Mine own will" (John 6:38).
"My teaching is not Mine" (John 7:16)
"I am not come of Myself" (John 7:28)
"I do nothing of Myself" (John 8:28)
"I have not come of Myself, but He sent Me" (John 8: 42).
"I seek not Mine own glory" (John 8:50)
"The words that I say, I speak not from Myself" (John 14: 10).
"The word which ye hear is not Mine" (John 14: 24).
These words open to us the deepest roots of Christ's life and work. They tell us how it was that the Almighty God was able to work His mighty redemptive work through Him. They show what Christ counted the state of heart which became Him as the Son of the Father. They teach us what the essential nature and life is of that redemption which Christ accomplished and now communicates. It is this: He was nothing, that God might be all. He resigned Himself with His will and His powers entirely for the Father to work in Him. Of His own power, His own will, and His own glory, of His whole mission with all His works and His teaching,of all this He said, It is not I; I am nothing; I have given Myself to the Father to work; I am nothing, the Father is all.
This life of entire self-abnegation, of absolute submission and dependence upon the Father's will, Christ found to be one of perfect peace and joy. He lost nothing by giving all to God. God honored His trust, and did all for Him, and then exalted Him to His own right hand in glory. And because Christ had thus humbled Himself before God, and God was ever before Him, He found it possible to humble Himself before men too, and to be the Servant of all. His humility was simply the surrender of Himself to God, to allow Him to do in Him what He pleased, whatever men around might say of Him, or do to Him.
It is in this state of mind, in this spirit and disposition, that the redemption of Christ has its virtue and efficacy. It is to bring us to this disposition that we are made partakers of Christ. This is the true self-denial to which our Saviour calls us, the acknowledgment that self has nothing good in it, except as anempty vessel which God must fill, and that its claim to be or do anything may not for a moment be allowed. It is in this, above and before everything, in which the conformity to Jesus consists, the being and doing nothing of ourselves, that God may be all.
Here we have the root and nature of true humility. It is because this is not understood or sought after, that our humility is so superficial and so feeble. We must learn of Jesus, how He is meek and lowly of heart. He teaches us where true humility takes its rise and finds its strength-in the knowledge that it is God who worketh all in all, that our place is to yield to Him in perfect resignation and dependence, in full consent to be and to do nothing of ourselves. This is the life Christ came to reveal and to impart -a life to God that came through death to sin and self. If we feel that this life is too high for us and beyond our reach, it must but the more urge us to seek it in Him; it is the indwelling Christ who will live in us this life, meek and lowly. If we long for this, let us, meantime, above everything, seek the holy secret of the knowledge of the nature of God, as He every moment works all in all; the secret, of which all nature and every creature, and above all, every child of God, is to be the witness,-that it is nothing but a vessel, a channel, through which the living God can manifest the riches of His wisdom, power, and goodness. The root of all virtue and grace, of all faith and acceptable worship, is that we know that we have nothing but what we receive, and bow in deepest humility to wait upon God for it.
It was because this humility was not only a temporary sentiment, wakened up and brought into exercise when He thought of God, but the very spirit of His whole life, that Jesus was just as humble in His intercourse with men as with God. He felt Himself the Servant of God for the men whom God made and loved; as a natural consequence, He counted Himself the Servant of men, that through Him God might do His work of love. He never for a moment thought of seeking His honor, or asserting His power to vindicate Himself. His whole spirit was that of a life yielded to God to work in. It is not until Christians study the humility of Jesus as the very essence of His redemption, as the very blessedness of the life of the Son of God, as the only true relation to the Father, and therefore as that which Jesus must give us if we are to have any part with Him, that the terrible lack of actual, heavenly, manifest humility will become a burden and a sorrow, and our ordinary religion be set aside to secure this, the first and the chief of the marks of the Christ within us.
Brother, are you clothed with humility? Ask your daily life. Ask Jesus. Ask your friends. Ask the world. And begin to praise God that there is opened up to you in Jesus a heavenly humility of which you have hardly known, and through which a heavenly blessedness you possibly have never yet tasted can come in to you.
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The Emptiness of Christ
St. Paul speaks of Christ “emptying” Himself in His voluntary sacrifice for us all (Philippians 2:5-11). It is the only place in the New Testament that speaks of this particular action of Christ – at least as an “emptying” (kenosis) but the concept has always played a large role in the Church’s understanding of Christ’s death on the Cross.
It is interesting to me that Father Sophrony, in his writings, takes this idea of kenosis and applies it as well to the “not-I-but-the-Father” sayings: “I live by the Father” (Jn. 6:57; cf 5:30, 7:18, 15:15).
Fr. Nicholas Sakharov says of Father Sophrony’s point:
Christ, though the incarnate God, avoids any “divine action” of his own, so much so that the Father’s hypostasis [Person] is manifest absolutely through the absolutely “transparent screen” of Christ’s self-emptied hypostasis. Through this kenosis it becomes the “express image of the Father” (Heb. 1:3).
This, it seems to me, says much to us about what it means to become “like Christ.” The moralist approach (which I was taught as a child) is fraught with constant attention to “what would Jesus do?” in a moral calculation that can never end in anything but failure or delusion.
When St. Paul speaks of conformity to the image of Christ it is always clear that this is not something we accomplish, but something that is accomplished within us by God. In particular he says:
I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. And the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me (Gal. 2:20).
Here is our own kenosis or emptying. “Not-I-but-Christ.” And thus we become transparent and finally transparent such that we are His image. This is not an effort of moralism, but a self-offering to God. And so St. Paul writes:
I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect (Romans 12:1-2).
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/24/2010 1:21:46 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/24/2010 1:23 PM (GMT -6) | | So, Asher. If the way you consider the Lordship of Jesus (as God's Son and Incarnate Logos) is the way I'm thinking it is ("my Lord and my God" ), I'd sure call you a Christian." With that...does your Prop. A and your belief that "Jesus is Lord" naturally imply the imitation of Christ as described by Kempis, Murray, and Fr. Stephen?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/24/2010 1:26:55 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/24/2010 3:02 PM (GMT -6) | | Though fascinated by the natural world and appreciating its great beauty, the Fathers clearly understood that if the mind were to be distracted by the puzzles of nature and to consider them as ends in themselves, then the knowledge of nature would itself become an obstacle in trying to know God. Thus a tension was created between the appreciation of nature and the danger of being trapped by its investigation. On the one hand, the natural world is accepted and affirmed, while, on the other, it is renounced as having no meaning without its spiritual ground. The necessity to rise above nature in order to find God was always experienced as the difficulty of being detached from a natural world that at the same time was highly appreciated.
In the contemplation of the logoi of creation (Maximus the Confessor), the Greek Fathers found an ingenious way of resolving this tension, freeing themselves from the demands of nature, on the one hand, while enjoying nature, on the other. They never experienced any fear of nature, which was the creation of a God "who loves mankind." Their detachment from the material world provided a paradoxical freedom to treat this world in a way that never subverted their spiritual vision of reality, that is, their faith. The secret of the Greek Fathers' freedom to enjoy nature was their detachment from it. Their spiritual vision of nature freed them to love and appreciate nature without condemning its created origin and without fearing its demands, for the natural world, like all of creation, is good because everything done by God through his Word (Logos) is good.
Alexei V. Nesteruk
Light from the East: Theology, Science, and the Eastern Orthodox Tradition
"Detachment from Nature and the Love of Nature"
Page 28
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 8/24/2010 3:07:41 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Asher
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Total Posts : 477
| Posted 8/24/2010 5:45 PM (GMT -6) | | D: "So, Asher. If the way you consider the Lordship of Jesus (as God's Son and Incarnate Logos) is the way I'm thinking it is ("my Lord and my God" ), I'd sure call you a Christian." With that...does your Prop. A and your belief that "Jesus is Lord" naturally imply the imitation of Christ as described by Kempis, Murray, and Fr. Stephen?"
Yes...but it's more complex than that answer seems...
...because for me...the Bible is not "the Word of God". Before I elaborate, let's just take account of how different from most every other Christian that places me. What I believe cannot be said in a short aphorism like "The Bible is the Word of God" It takes several sentences layered onto each other to understand that I am not an enemy of the Bible, or of much Christian teaching originating in the Bible. But most Christians I have actually opened up to with this CANNOT get to that point quickly or easily with me...when they realize I do not see the Bible the same way they do, it shocks them and they go into defensive mode, then offensive mode...neither of which I mind as long as we are REALLY engaging what I think instead of what they think I think based on my not affirming the same level of authority in Scripture. Is this belief on my part enough to warrant the conclusion that I am not a Christian? Maybe. But we can point to some church leader or another through the centuries (especially during canonization phase) that denies pretty much every book in the Bible as authoritative on the level of "Word of God". The difference between them and me is that while they deny one or a few books as being the "Word of God", I deny them all. Point to any given book that I deny and there is some other more traditional, accepted, Christian that is also denying it. Is the test that you may deny some books that other Christians affirm, as long as you do affirm that there is some thing called "the Word of God" that you can point to and say, "There it is."
First, I think that the Bible is a record (from the side of men) of different people's interactions with God. I think Scripture is generally trustworthy (i.e. I don't think any of the writers were intentionally lying or attempting to deceive)...but could they be wrong about some stuff based on their misunderstanding of their interaction with God, especially in light of their embeddedness in a particular socio-cultural, religious milieu...Yes, I think so. Does that mean that the Bible becomes useless as a tool for gaining knowledge about God or for seeking interaction with God? No. It just means that there is nothing that has the certainty and surety of having "Word of God" stamped on it. Does that mean there is no certainty or surety to be had? No. It can be found in the real "Word of God", Jesus. Who is living and interactive (on His own terms).
And as for propositional truths and their degree of warranted belief, I like much of Alvin Plantinga's work, even if I disagree with him on some stuff too. Some form of foundationalism in epistemology pretty much must be assumed, because if not, you REALLY have no grounds for any belief. And to even deny foundationalism forces one into a performative contradiction. I really like Susan Haack's work in this field. And I especially like her analogy of the crossword puzzle. No one's crossword puzzle is complete (except God's) (i.e. no one is omniscient, and hence no one has total certainty...again, excepting God) but there are some A priori givens that are as certain as anything we can get...and they are like some initial part of the crossword puzzle filled in. We also have clues about the crossword answers. And of course, the answers must match up with crossing previously existing answers, or we know this answer or the previous one or both are wrong. So, we do have relative degrees of warrant. With some things being so certain that to deny them unhinges all rationality whatsoever...other things that, especially given their relationship with the certain things makes them pretty certain as well. And on down the line to things that are mere speculation...which is akin to filling in an answer in pencil so it can be erased if further evidence denies it's warrant...you just have to make sure you don't let it slip over in your thinking to being something that is firmly established.
More later, dinner is ready. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 5/31/2011 8:52 AM (GMT -6) | | Encouragment.
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The Twenty-Third Chapter:
THOUGHTS ON DEATH
VERY soon your life here will end; consider, then, what may be in store for you elsewhere. Today we live; tomorrow we die and are quickly forgotten. Oh, the dullness and hardness of a heart which looks only to the present instead of preparing for that which is to come!
Therefore, in every deed and every thought, act as though you were to die this very day. If you had a good conscience you would not fear death very much. It is better to avoid sin than to fear death. If you are not prepared today, how will you be prepared tomorrow? Tomorrow is an uncertain day; how do you know you will have a tomorrow?
What good is it to live a long life when we amend that life so little? Indeed, a long life does not always benefit us, but on the contrary, frequently adds to our guilt. Would that in this world we had lived well throughout one single day. Many count up the years they have spent in religion but find their lives made little holier. If it is so terrifying to die, it is nevertheless possible that to live longer is more dangerous. Blessed is he who keeps the moment of death ever before his eyes and prepares for it every day.
If you have ever seen a man die, remember that you, too, must go the same way. In the morning consider that you may not live till evening, and when evening comes do not dare to promise yourself the dawn. Be always ready, therefore, and so live that death will never take you unprepared. Many die suddenly and unexpectedly, for in the unexpected hour the Son of God will come. When that last moment arrives you will begin to have a quite different opinion of the life that is now entirely past and you will regret very much that you were so careless and remiss.
How happy and prudent is he who tries now in life to be what he wants to be found in death. Perfect contempt of the world, a lively desire to advance in virtue, a love for discipline, the works of penance, readiness to obey, self-denial, and the endurance of every hardship for the love of Christ, these will give a man great expectations of a happy death.
You can do many good works when in good health; what can you do when you are ill? Few are made better by sickness. Likewise they who undertake many pilgrimages seldom become holy.
Do not put your trust in friends and relatives, and do not put off the care of your soul till later, for men will forget you more quickly than you think. It is better to provide now, in time, and send some good account ahead of you than to rely on the help of others. If you do not care for your own welfare now, who will care when you are gone?
The present is very precious; these are the days of salvation; now is the acceptable time. How sad that you do not spend the time in which you might purchase everlasting life in a better way. The time will come when you will want just one day, just one hour in which to make amends, and do you know whether you will obtain it?
See, then, dearly beloved, the great danger from which you can free yourself and the great fear from which you can be saved, if only you will always be wary and mindful of death. Try to live now in such a manner that at the moment of death you may be glad rather than fearful. Learn to die to the world now, that then you may begin to live with Christ. Learn to spurn all things now, that then you may freely go to Him. Chastise your body in penance now, that then you may have the confidence born of certainty.
Ah, foolish man, why do you plan to live long when you are not sure of living even a day? How many have been deceived and suddenly snatched away! How often have you heard of persons being killed by drownings, by fatal falls from high places, of persons dying at meals, at play, in fires, by the sword, in pestilence, or at the hands of robbers! Death is the end of everyone and the life of man quickly passes away like a shadow.
Who will remember you when you are dead? Who will pray for you? Do now, beloved, what you can, because you do not know when you will die, nor what your fate will be after death. Gather for yourself the riches of immortality while you have time. Think of nothing but your salvation. Care only for the things of God. Make friends for yourself now by honoring the saints of God, by imitating their actions, so that when you depart this life they may receive you into everlasting dwellings.
Keep yourself as a stranger here on earth, a pilgrim whom its affairs do not concern at all. Keep your heart free and raise it up to God, for you have not here a lasting home. To Him direct your daily prayers, your sighs and tears, that your soul may merit after death to pass in happiness to the Lord.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 5/31/2011 8:58 AM (GMT -6) | | My own thoughts...
1) Death promotes the "sickness unto death" (Void)...but also the "kairos" unto "redeeming the time." (Divine Presence).
2) It forces the issue of IMMEDIACY and SIGNIFICANCE in choosing between the Positive Absurd of the God-Human Jesus (Life) or the Negative Absurd (Void) at every moment.
3) Nepsis is crucial to this freedom of choice.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 5/31/2011 9:54:22 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 5/31/2011 10:03 AM (GMT -6) | | The Eighth Chapter
THE INTIMATE FRIENDSHIP OF JESUS
When Jesus is near, all is well and nothing seems difficult. When He is absent, all is hard. When Jesus does not speak within, all other comfort is empty, but if He says only a word, it brings great consolation.
Did not Mary Magdalen rise at once from her weeping when Martha said to her: "The Master is come, and calleth for thee"? Happy is the hour when Jesus calls one from tears to joy of spirit.
How dry and hard you are without Jesus! How foolish and vain if you desire anything but Him! Is it not a greater loss than losing the whole world? For what, without Jesus, can the world give you? Life without Him is a relentless hell, but living with Him is a sweet paradise. If Jesus be with you, no enemy can harm you.
He who finds Jesus finds a rare treasure, indeed, a good above every good, whereas he who loses Him loses more than the whole world. The man who lives without Jesus is the poorest of the poor, whereas no one is so rich as the man who lives in His grace.
It is a great art to know how to converse with Jesus, and great wisdom to know how to keep Him. Be humble and peaceful, and Jesus will be with you. Be devout and calm, and He will remain with you. You may quickly drive Him away and lose His grace, if you turn back to the outside world. And, if you drive Him away and lose Him, to whom will you go and whom will you then seek as a friend? You cannot live well without a friend, and if Jesus be not your friend above all else, you will be very sad and desolate. Thus, you are acting foolishly if you trust or rejoice in any other. Choose the opposition of the whole world rather than offend Jesus. Of all those who are dear to you, let Him be your special love. Let all things be loved for the sake of Jesus, but Jesus for His own sake.
Jesus Christ must be loved alone with a special love for He alone, of all friends, is good and faithful. For Him and in Him you must love friends and foes alike, and pray to Him that all may know and love Him.
Never desire special praise or love, for that belongs to God alone Who has no equal. Never wish that anyone's affection be centered in you, nor let yourself be taken up with the love of anyone, but let Jesus be in you and in every good man. Be pure and free within, unentangled with any creature.
You must bring to God a clean and open heart if you wish to attend and see how sweet the Lord is. Truly you will never attain this happiness unless His grace prepares you and draws you on so that you may forsake all things to be united with Him alone.
When the grace of God comes to a man he can do all things, but when it leaves him he becomes poor and weak, abandoned, as it were, to affliction. Yet, in this condition he should not become dejected or despair. On the contrary, he should calmly await the will of God and bear whatever befalls him in praise of Jesus Christ, for after winter comes summer, after night, the day, and after the storm, a great calm.
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"I Must Tell Jesus"
Virtue
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 5/31/2011 10:07:23 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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