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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/27/2010 8:42 AM (GMT -6) |   |
- From here...
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- II: Let your Spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy,
- so that they may become for us
- the body and blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
- III: And so, Father, we bring you these gifts.
- We ask you to make them holy by the power of your Spirit,
- that they may become the body and blood
- of your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
- at whose command we celebrate this eucharist.
- IV: Father, may this Holy Spirit sanctify these offerings.
- Let them become the body and blood of Jesus Christ our Lord
- as we celebrate the great mystery
- which he left us as an everlasting covenant.
- II: May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ
- be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit.
- III: Look with favour on your Church's offering,
- and see the Victim whose death has reconciled us to yourself.
- Grant that we, who are nourished by his body and blood,
- may be filled with his Holy Spirit,
- and become one body, one spirit in Christ.
- IV: Lord, look upon this sacrifice which you have given to your Church;
- and by your Holy Spirit, gather all who share this one bread and one cup
- into the one body of Christ, a living sacrifice of praise.
Now, the EO say this is ESSENTIAL to what the Church IS. No Eucharist without Epiklesis. And THIS is the epiklesis.
As I look at it, this is what is supposed to happen: true human beings living in singular love for the Trinity and non-exclusive love for one another actively ingest the divinized flesh of the Risen Christ...which as divinized flesh, is essentially empowered with God's Spirit. Whoever is nourished by his body and blood (wherever and whenever this may occur), all are made one body, one spirit in Christ...by the POWER of the Spirit. I believe it is MEANT to be physically healing to the partaker. It would kind of be assumed...right?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/27/2010 8:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Now, I guess my thing is this...twofold.
1) It's ALL nothingness and forces in the end, man. Bread, wine, flesh, blood, rocks, water, air...all everything composed of atoms. On a ground level, it's all the same thing. All the same stuff in the "point" at/before the Big Bang, right? So there's no essential difference between Jesus' human flesh and blood...and my flesh and blookd...IF his body is still made up of atoms like all human beings in his day and time.
2) Jesus' glorified flesh and blood is what it is because of the WAY the omnipresent Holy Spirit works in them. If all Christians already HAVE the Holy Spirit (which they do)..and are asked to be "living sacrifices" for God in Christ (which they are)...why not just ask the Holy Spirit to work in our flesh and blood...in the same way (s)he works in Jesus' glorified flesh and blood right now. A foretaste of what is to come...now. I don't see how you wouldn't have the same outcome...if God answered the prayer.
But why wouldn't God answer that prayer?
Lord Jesus,
Santify my body with your Presence, by Your Spirit.
Make these hands truly YOUR hands. Let them love my brothers and sisters.
Make these eyes truly YOUR eyes. Let them love my brothers and sisters.
Make my heart truly YOUR heart. Let me love my brothers and sisters.
Allow your Spirit to work in my body and soul...
just as (S)he works in your glorified body and soul right now,
According to Our Father's Will alone,
In Your Name alone,
By the Power of your Spirit alone...
Amen.
You mean God wouldn't answer that?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 10/28/2010 10:07:47 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/27/2010 9:05 AM (GMT -6) | | And NONE of this is knocking Communion. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the the core meaning of Eucharist event can be lived in corporately and individually...just like we are Church and Christ corporately and individually. (Zizzy's Being and Communion)
Unless we are going to say that the ONLY TIME the HOly Spirit will do this for us...is if we are actively taking Communion.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 10/27/2010 9:14:37 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 10/27/2010 8:45 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/28/2010 9:57 PM (GMT -6) | | Ok. I'll wing it.
The "future" is "Now", if we are talking about Grace (God Himself working on Creation's behalf). There will be no time in the future that there will be more or less of God's love sustaining Creation. All of the blessing the exists in the future (by the Spirit of God) exists NOW. All spiritual blessings have been given to us in Divine Presence (the Spiritual Presence of Christ). All Christians are meant to be Holy Spirit-bearers...and one can possess no more of the Summum Bonum than the Holy Spirit, their "inheritance". We are to bring the "eschata" into the Present Moment by faith, allowing the Holy Spirit to bring the "future" into the Now.
The epicletic reality grounding the Eucharist is meant to facilitate this. I mean think about it. Ideally, you'd have human males and females, all partaking of one body (the Body of Christ) in one mind (the Mind of Christ) in one spirit (the Spirit of Christ) in one presence (Grace) in commitment to one Lord (the Bride of Christ) to the glory of one Father (the Father of Christ) With this happens, Divine Presence (the Spiritual Presence of Christ) permeates both dimensions of the faithful believer's human existence, both intelligibie and sensible. These people would be IN time...but OUTSIDE of time at the same time. Divine Presence (ie the One Triune God) would define human existence and human relations, hence the transcendence of time and space (including socio-cultural barriers). And they would express the love of the Trinity in their own relations...hence the "kiss of peace" and the like. They would be participating in a "foretaste" of the glory of Divine Presence. A "foretaste" of heaven.
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Pastor: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God the Father and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you.
Congregation: And with your spirit.
Pastor: Let us love one another, that with one mind we may confess:
Congregation: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! The Trinity, one in essence, and undivided!
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May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ
be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit.
Look with favour on your Church's offering,
and see the Victim whose death has reconciled us to yourself.
Grant that we, who are nourished by his body and blood,
may be filled with his Holy Spirit,
and become one body, one spirit in Christ.
**********************************
At the center of our being is a point of nothingness which is untouched by sin and by illusion, a point of pure truth, a point or spark which belongs entirely to God, which is never at our disposal, from which God disposes of our lives, which is inaccessible to the fantasies of our own mind or the brutalities of our own will. This little point of nothingness and of absolute poverty is the pure glory of God in us. It is so to speak his name written in us … like a pure diamond, blazing with the invisible light of heaven. It is in everybody, and if we could see it we would see these billions of points of light coming together in the face and blaze of a sun that would make all the darkness and cruelty of life vanish completely.
Thomas Merton
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Christ himself was treated as “the New Man” and the last Adam. The divine plan of salvation was consummated, the kingdom of God inaugurated through Christ, but the ultimate things were yet to come in fullness and glory. The king had come, but the kingdom was still to come. The promise of the kingdom was granted to the church by the Holy Spirit. The church has lived since then in two dimensions: in sight of ongoing secular history and world events in the time of decay and oblivion, but also in the time of the heavenly kingdom inaugurated by the risen savior (in which the church has lived epicletically in the expectation of the kingdom.)
The coming of Christ and the resurrection changed completely the human situation, for in fallen existence, the time form of the world is characterized by law (nomos); this implies that humans were involved in an irreversible chain of decay and corruption, which led them to mortality with no hope of undoing the things they had done. Everything that had been done became ontologically necessary, so that there was no way to overcome this necessity, which is indicated by the word “law”. The coming of Christ and the resurrection relieved us from this law; we are still living in the world or “fallen” temporal order, but we are relieved from the necessity of the law; that is, we have a chance of renewal and of entering the kingdom [of God], cleansing ourselves through constant participation in the resurrection of the Lord.
Alexei V. Nesteruk, Light from the East: Theology, Science, and the Eastern Orthodox Tradition, p.246
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So, Bruce. How's that?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 10/28/2010 10:34:30 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 10/30/2010 8:42 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/31/2010 4:29 PM (GMT -6) | | Whom would God have us be?
I believe that God would have us be living, breathing eucharists.
Eucharist, from Greek εὐχαριστία (eucharistia), means "thanksgiving". The verb εὐχαριστῶ, the usual word for "to thank" in the Septuagint and the New Testament, is found in the major texts concerning the Lord's Supper...
"If the only prayer you ever say in your entire life is thank you, it will be enough."
Meister Eckhart
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 10/31/2010 4:32:19 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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