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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/4/2010 4:59 PM (GMT -6) |   | | What do y'all think about this idea?
I think what this person describes as the "illusion of ego" is the false self (biological hypostasis; prospon as "individual" )
Read Thomas Merton. Page 7.
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/4/2010 5:17 PM (GMT -6) | | I like this quote...
With people, the practice of non-separateness arouses our resistance. We seem so separate. And that separateness has layers: material, emotional, mental, being, and will. The material aspects of separateness have to do with the fact that you are in your body and I am in mine. Differences in race, sex, and social class divide us at this superficial level. At the emotional layer of separateness, you have your desires and I have mine. Anger, hatred, jealousy, envy, greed, and the like confirm and deepen our separateness from each other. At the mental layer of separateness, our world view, attitudes, and agendas are built on the illusion of separateness, both individual and collective. Differences in nationality, politics, and religion divide us at this mental level. Then we have the separateness of being arising from the fact that you are there and I am here. What happens to you does not happen to me, and vice versa. Finally, we encounter the separateness of will: you are not me and I am not you. You do not choose what I do, and I do not choose what you do.
These layers of separateness also apply within ourselves. At first, we are identified with our body, our emotions, our attitudes. Then we notice them and consider all of that to be separate from who we are. We might think of our body or our personality as something to do battle against. At a later stage, we reunite everything into a new wholeness. As we overcome the layers of separateness within us, we can also overcome our separateness from other people.
This is a PERFECT description of the activity of the "biological hypostasis". When the "prosopon" identifies completely with what is described above. Being an "individual", not a true "I"...a true person.
And this is why eucharistic life in Christ TRANSCENDS this. The layers of separateness are eliminated through the loving participation in Divine Presence. Separateness becomes uniqueness in ONE Holy Temple.
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One Love
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| Posted 12/4/2010 5:44 PM (GMT -6) | | VERY random thoughts:
1) In the Body of Christ, human differentiation is not a means for isolation, separation, or alienation. Though the ONE Spiritual Presence of Christ, human differentiation becomes the ultimate "unity-in-diversity" expression in Creation. Ideally, at the Eucharist, all "separateness" based on biological hypostatic concerns is completely obliterated by actual "partaking in the divine nature".
2) The Body of Christ seems to have a "fractal" quality to it, in that both individual human beings AND collectives AND the whole are the Body and Temple of Christ in whom Christ's Presence dwells and is clearly seen in each and all, such that the state of the Body affect each "member" and each "member" affects state of the the whole Body.
3) Perhaps the Adamic fall can best be thought of this way: the fall from true personhood (unity-in-diversity) into "individuality" (isolation, alienation) and despair. Basically (as Tom would say) attempting personhood and failing. You can see it when, in Adam's eyes, Eve goes from "flesh of my flesh" to "this damn woman you gave me". After attempting self-conscious self-assertion rather than humility before God (choosing to eat the apple), they both feel "separate" from themselves, their mate, Nature, and God. It's now "them against the world"...and they FELT like that. And that's the kind of life our ancestors passed on to us. Marcus Borg takes a perspective like this. (Start at Page 113 and how he describes the emergence of self-consciousness.)
Interesting piece of info, Tom. Borg's description of emergence...is quite like what Amit Goswami talked about how self-reference in the human brain works. Yeah...
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 12/4/2010 5:02:59 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/4/2010 6:14 PM (GMT -6) | | | According to this...what we are calling the "false self" could be described as a complete identification of human self-reference (the Ahamkara) with products of the mental activity (memories, imagination, etc) in the sphere of human consciousness (Manas and Chitta) such that the "discontinuity" of self-awareness and self-transcendence (Buddhi) is obscured.
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[The] association between Ahamkara (Ego in Yoga science) and the data in Chitta, in turn, allows the emergence of the apparent individual personality (Ego in psychology). In this association, the impressions in Chitta are "colored"...by Ahamkara with attractions and aversions. These colored impressions then compete for attention. In the absence of clear choice by Buddhi (knows, decides, judges, discriminates), the colored impressions drive Manas (sensory-motor mind) to take actions purely out of habit.
The cause of our suffering: The entire cause of our mental and emotional suffering is the false identification between Ahamkara and the data that is stored in Chitta. (Eventually, at a deeper level, the Self is seen to have falsely identified itself with the Four Functions of Mind themselves). By witnessing the Four Functions of Mind, while they are functioning, we increasingly come to see this mistaken identity, which leads to freedom.
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Id, ego, and super-ego
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 12/4/2010 5:38:36 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/6/2010 1:06 PM (GMT -6) | | No thoughts at all? Come on, Tom. Pleeeeeease? 
Just about the ego/biological hypostasis thing. Doesn't it make sense? The difference between the egocentric human ego and the theocentric human ego?
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/6/2010 1:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Thought:
How many people in our society are genuine persons, not just "individuals"? Asked another way, how many human beings in our society are trapped in biological hypostasis? Another way of asking the question: how many people in our society consistently fail to choose to be "present" to themselves and others?
A lot, maybe?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 12/6/2010 12:24:01 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/7/2010 12:53 AM (GMT -6) | | D: Asked another way, how many human beings in our society are trapped in biological hypostasis? Another way of asking the question: how many people in our society consistently fail to choose to be "present" to themselves and others? A lot, maybe?
T: I think we hit and miss. Sometimes we live in it. Sometimes we dispair.
What I'm asking is this: on the whole, how often do we miss in proportion to how much we "live in it." We are basically talking about watchfulness (nepsis), where the "strategic allocation of attention" of a person is constantly focused on God's Presence and what God is doing in Creation. This is the "giftedness" of the life of faith in Grace via consistent practice of the "sacrament of the present moment." How many people in our anti-neptic culture really live in that consistently?
"It's (nepsis, watchfulness) the hardest thing to do. But it's THE one discipline of mind that's at the heart of all other disciplines. If you can't stay on task, with increasing focus and attention, you can't grow spiritually."
--Tom
"Prayer is essentially standing face to face with God, consciously striving to remain collected and absolutely still and attentive in his presence, which means standing with an undivided mind, an undivided heart and an undivided will in the presence of the Lord; and that is not easy."
--Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 12/7/2010 12:03:13 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/7/2010 1:06 AM (GMT -6) | | | Personally, I think a vast majority of people in our culture have a sense of self that is completely identified with their bodies and their personalities, having little to no experience of self-transcendence, which hinders the possibility for intimacy with the "other" and transpersonal experience.
I believer that, for many of us, if you were to ask us who we really are, we would probably say something dealing with their bodies (family lineage, people grouping, etc) or their personalities (personal name, personal historical memory and habit, etc). Often, in our lives, we see ourselves as little more than this...and act accordingly, frequently to divisive, alienating outcomes.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 12/7/2010 12:14:03 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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