Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

And please, let's assume the Spirit of God actively working on the behalf of a covenantal, contractual socialism actually grounded on the golden rule.

 

Which is the more appropriate framework for a member of the Body of Christ to endeaver for, Asher?  I'm really wanting to know what you think about this.  We've been talking about it...and I think that I've gathered that 1) you are not opposed to covenantal, contractual socialism given it's given fundamentally libertarian grounds and 2) you believe that a "one heart, one mind" perspective of covenantal, contractual socialism where "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is truly lived out by people "compelled" by the love of God and neighbor is what was genuinely demonstrated by the early church in Acts 2 and 4.

 

If you and I ain't anything, Asher, we are members of Christ's body by faith in Grace and brothers in the family of God in Christ. (The idea that you might not be Christian is laughable to me, honestly.  But that's just me. ;) ) We just ARE that.  What's more appropriate for both of us, on that basis.

 

 

 

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

One Love Registered Member Date Joined Jan 2003 Total Posts : 11727	Posted 11/20/2010 6:35 PM (GMT -6)
	Asher: Why don't you Dwayne, take your stewarded resources, pool them with as many like minded people as you can find...you guys start a capitalist enterprise...and instead of making profits, give all that money to the immediate needs of others. No one is stopping you from doing that. In fact, every socialist minded person in America could do that right now. Why aren't they? Because the needs of others is not the primary objective of socialist thought. Political control is. No one is stopping the AMERICAN CHURCH from doing this. So why aren't we?  Wouldn't that be an actual exercise of the "covenantal socialism" of Christ's Body in and for the world? Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Back to Top

Asher Registered Member Date Joined Apr 2003 Total Posts : 357	Posted 11/20/2010 6:42 PM (GMT -6)
	Dwayne: No one is stopping the AMERICAN CHURCH from doing this. So why aren't we? That's a good question. As an open theist in a pretty much traditional Christian area (Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc) I have not found a single church that will have me, unless I basically agree not to talk about open theism at all. So, I am churchless. But on the other hand...as a mail man in a small town of about 3,000. I have known first hand those who were in need, and been able to put some of my own resources toward those needs. And there was even one instance when I was able to get a small group from a friend's church to collect for a particular dire need. So, it can be done, but it isn't being done all that often is it? Your point is well made.

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Tom:
Which brings us back to our original question...on one of these threads...

What sort of socio-economic policies BEST instantiate the values of the Kingdom and what would it look like for the Church today to be the place where those policies are lived out?

Exactamundo. I personally believe that movement toward covenantal socialism (rather than secularly applied capitalism) is the more appropriate choice for self-understood members of the Body of Christ who want to model themselves after the early church modeled in Acts 4:32-37.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

We should have faith for that, right?

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Post Edited (One Love) : 12/8/2010 2:08:17 PM (GMT-6)

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Cicero - 55 BC (about Rome)

 

Jeff: First of all, non-Christians do these things as well. As John Stossel reported years back, there are people who just have personality types that get great gratification from what society deems to be humanitarian activity.

 

Second, as Paul says, if you do these things things without love, it's not what God is after. And as Jesus said of them, they have their reward. So we just don't know how much of what occurs is really people acting out of love rather than out of motivation for recognition, etc. Until people are acting out of love, they can never be motivated to suffer all things loss IN THIS LIFE for others.

 

This doesn't mean that the real thing isn't occurring. It means, as you've pointed out, it's NOT happening in many cases that seem to be no-brainers if people were actually motivated aright. What is clear is that this kind of giving has never been particularly effective at the societal level if, by effective, we mean that it got all poorer people off of the lower level(s) of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

 

Tom: I mean, don't we expect (and HAVE to expect) the church to evidence SOME difference from the world in this respect? I hope so! ;o)

 

Jeff: It's the other way around. Where there is no fruit, there is no compelling reason to believe a professor of Christianity is a bona-fide heart-believer in the first place. That doesn't mean we don't give the benefit of the doubt (for the purpose of rightly-relating to others) in cases where professors aren't acting grossly contrary to God's will, on the other hand.

 

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Outside of that, even God doesn't know. And if He doesn't know it, He can't expect it in any predictive sense. He can only expect it in an accountability sense. And that He most certainly does.