 |
| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > General Chat > Jesus endorses ownership | Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
Asher
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 477
| Posted 12/7/2010 9:55 PM (GMT -6) |   | 1“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. 2He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3“about the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5So they went.
“He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. 6about the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
7“‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
9“The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
13“But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
-----------------
If Jesus didn't recognize ownership then this parable would make no sense.
And before you even come at it saying "He's talking about God being the landowner."...nuh uh!...the Kingdom of Heaven is like a landowner. Pretty straightforward analogy. | | Back to Top | | |
 |
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/7/2010 11:29 PM (GMT -6) | | Moreover, let's get something straight. I agree that human beings can have spheres of influence where they have exclusive rights and control regarding said spheres (like the human body, for instance). In other words, human beings can and do "own" in that sense. What I've been virtually screaming, Asher homie, is that the God-seeing believer knoooooooooooows that those things that "belong" to them, that they "own", ACTUALLY and GENUINELY belong to God Himself. And THAT, my brother, morphs "ownership" into "stewardship", like Tom's been saying.
What I recognize is that, provided a people have "one heart, one mind" in the belief in God's ultimate ownership of all things, covenantal socialism in a libertarian framework using capitalistic tools (where "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is truly lived out by people "compelled" by the love of God and neighbor) is preferable to SECULAR capitalism as we see it currently displayed, where profit margin is the effective bottom line. At LEAST, this should be true in the Body of Christ. Yes?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
|
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/15/2010 12:54 PM (GMT -6) | | Asher, I have to admit I was wrong. It would seem that God really DOES endorse a type of ownership that seems distinct from stewardship per se.
Here's my thought in a nutshell: In Christ, human beings are a "royal priesthood" that individually and communally act as "microcosm and mediator" in Creation...and, in this Holy Spirit-empowered theandric state, their only "property", "inheritance", or "possession" is God Himself.
I got this idea from OT idea idea that God Himself was the ultimate possession of those whom he chose to mediate Divine Presence and Will to the world (specifically Aaron and line of Levi in the OT). One expression of this is how this worked out with the Levites where it was that whatever belonged to God could be provided for the sustanance of his mediators ...and God could distribute that to the priests as God wished. Of course, the call for the Levites was to do the mediation process properly before God. To me, another expression of this is the long "promised" Holy Spirit of God which, at some point in the future will, fall upon all humanity, and currently indwells believers as "deposit" for our "inheritance" to come...which is not separable from Divine Presence within us mediated by the Holy Spirit. All humanity will truly be a "kingdom of priests" via God in Christ where their only "owned property" is God Himself, graciously given as to them as the true Unpossessable Possession.
In short, the Christian has God Himself (All 3 Persons mediated to the believer via the Holy Spirit) as "down payment" on what God wants to give us AND the eventual "payoff" itself. God does want us to have Godself as our own "property" in a way.
Makes sense, A?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 12/15/2010 12:26:07 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
|
Asher
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 477
| Posted 12/15/2010 5:25 PM (GMT -6) | | Yep, I'm with ya.
And acknowledging this distinction does nothing to lessen you and Tom's concerns about what you have referred to as "absolute ownership"
There are very few absolutes it would seem (those being the very borders of ontological, epistemological, ethical reality). And even when we have VERY strong cases indicating a SOFA obtaining, we would probably be better served in considering them from a statistical perspective rather than an absolute perspective, given exceptions, marginal cases, and the like...in other words the burden of proof in those cases does fall on the exceptions, but we must have leeway in our thoughts to accommodate the fact that we are not talking about an area that we have 100% certainty about. | | Back to Top | | |
|
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/16/2010 5:37 PM (GMT -6) | | Asher:
There are very few absolutes it would seem (those being the very borders of ontological, epistemological, ethical reality). And even when we have VERY strong cases indicating a SOFA obtaining, we would probably be better served in considering them from a statistical perspective rather than an absolute perspective, given exceptions, marginal cases, and the like...in other words the burden of proof in those cases does fall on the exceptions, but we must have leeway in our thoughts to accommodate the fact that we are not talking about an area that we have 100% certainty about.
Wise advice, bro.
*********************************
Tom:
Hey D...
...about ownership...
I am what the Word says I am.
I have what the Word says I have.
I own what the Word says I own.
Nuthin but "Amen" on that one. Where's "BibleGal" at when you really need her? Sheesh. 
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
|
One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/18/2010 4:11 PM (GMT -6) | | about your statement above, Tom. I had an interesting thought just a while ago...
"By Holy Spirit working within me, the uncreated love, joy, and peace of God Himself is always 'mine'. "
It's almost hard to believe. But by faith, I know it's true. It's gotta be true if the aforegoing conversation has any truth to it.
Hmmm...Blessed Assurance, yes?
This love that I have,
the world didn't give it to me...
This joy that I have,
the world didn't give it to me...
This peace that I have,
the world didn't give it to me...
The world didn't give it,
and the world can't take it awaaaay...
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 12/18/2010 3:17:47 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 1:43 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|