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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/23/2011 9:14 AM (GMT -6) |   | | First this....then this. Here's the author's bio.
I know we talked about this before somewhere, but this made me think about it again: What is the "sine qua non" of Christian faith? Here's my thought:
One cannot be a Christian in any meaningful sense without believing that ONLY Jesus of Nazareth is the final, definitive self-objectification/self-expression of both 1) who the Uncreated Creator is and 2) what the Uncreated Creator's thoughts, feelings, and interests are in human terms. In other words, Christians believe that Jesus is the ONLY individual human subject--as God's Word incarnated into humanity by the power of God's Spirit--who "exactly re-presents" the "heart" and "mind" of Divine Presence itself and it's intentions for the Created.
To say anything else is to relegate Christianity to merely human approximation of divine truth through religious, cultic activity, with Jesus of Nazareth as the spiritual leader/teacher of a Jewish re-vitalization movement, promoting the IDEA of the "kingdom of God." The uniqueness of Christ (and, corresponsively, Christianity) among other spiritual paths is utterly removed. Jesus then becomes no more or less of a re-presenter of divine truth than the Buddha, Mohammed, or any other spiritually-enlightened human being. (Which is exacly what most pluralists and process theologians WOULD say.)
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/23/2011 8:18:13 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/23/2011 9:31 AM (GMT -6) | | You can run it this way: If one REFRAINS from believing that the Uncreated Creator has chosen to self-express uniquely in the human individual, Jesus, then how do any of the synoptic gospel's indications of Jesus' self-understanding make any sense at all? How could one make sense of why Jesus' own people wanted to kill him for his scandalous self-expressed intimacy with and reflection of God? Moreover, how would one explain what happens at Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist (the Father's voice, the Spirit as dove, etc) OR at Jesus' transfiguration (the Father's voice, the Spirit as cloud of light, etc.) You'd have to say that Jesus was narcissitically DELUDED in his self-understanding...and that the activity surrounding Jesus' conception, baptism, and transfiguration were completely MADE UP in order to do that.
I don't see how one could say that Jesus was an ordinary, yet enlightened human who was ultimately self-deceived about himself, his origins, and his God...AND be a "new being in Christ" at the same time.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/23/2011 8:35:08 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/23/2011 9:33 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 1/23/2011 11:35 AM (GMT -6) | | | Do we have to believe that Jesus was ressurected to be a Christian? I think we do. I think the other stuff you mention can be inferred AFTER believing in the ressurection of Christ and its indications as to Jesus' lordship. And this implies that "saving" faith is not near all of what we need to believe to be in the right long-term relationship with God. Kinda of like the thief on the cross could have saving faith without believing or even conceiving of a whole lot of other beliefs he would have been expected to believe had he lived long enough. Where little is given, little is required.
By saving faith I mean that faith, and the necessary voluntary action consistent with it, that results in the inheritance of one or more aspects of God's kingdom. Obviously, if UR is true, there is some sense in which all will be "saved." Alternatively, if the antithesis of being saved is being in a state of "perishing," an unbeliever may not be in either state, once experiencing the "second death."
Post Edited (Similitude) : 1/23/2011 11:08:53 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/23/2011 1:13 PM (GMT -6) | | Similtude:
Do we have to believe that Jesus was ressurected to be a Christian? I think we do. I think the other stuff you mention can be inferred AFTER believing in the ressurection of Christ and its indications as to Jesus' lordship. And this implies that "saving" faith is not near all of what we need to believe to be in the right long-term relationship with God. Kinda of like the thief on the cross could have saving faith without believing or even conceiving of a whole lot of other beliefs he would have been expected to believe had he lived long enough. Where little is given, little is required.
What little was the thief on the cross given? The belief that Jesus was God's Messiah and Christ.
Two others, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified him, and the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments. And the people stood by, watching, but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!” The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” There was also an inscription over him, “This is the King of the Jews.”
One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
In other words, the repentant thief believed that Jesus was indeed the Christ and God's "Chosen One"...and it was his faith in his as THAT that lead him to believe in Jesus-as-coming-King situation. But that couldn't be believed in without believing Jesus' own teaching about his uniqueness AS God's "Chosen One" who would be raised from the dead.
And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
As far as the belief that Jesus is resurrected, in my opinion, is crucial aspect of believing what Jesus said about himself, his uniqueness, and his own personal future and in with God. That's how the resurrection can be seen as a vindication from God rather than some weird, random, occurance.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/23/2011 12:24:16 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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