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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
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| Posted 1/21/2011 8:41 AM (GMT -6) |   | | Man. I hear myself in Steve's words...
January 17, 2011 Length: 9:14
Steve the Builder is on the road again and spent a week insulating and remodeling the Abbot's cell, a 60 year old building at St. Michael's Monastery in northern New Mexico.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 1/21/2011 9:00 AM (GMT -6) | |
January 19, 2011 Length: 12:42
Many efforts are made to convince modern Christians that they live "in between" Christ's first coming and His second - and that this "in between" period is somehow different and requires new understandings of the gospel. Fr. Stephen refutes this false understanding and describes where it is we now live.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 1/21/2011 2:44 PM (GMT -6) | | |
"It is the same delusion that fueled my aspiration to priesthood, my illusions of quasi-monastic capabilities, my ego that torpedoes good intentions and the vainglory that has fed a life of public ministries."
I just had time to listen to the first podcast. Excellent, excellent stuff. To this day, I struggle with whether I should have laid down certain "ministry" and ministry opportunities in the area of music. Am I not using the giftings that God has blessed me with? Is it a sin if I don't? Am I hiding my talents? Isn't hiding your talents a sin? What's the difference between hiding your talent say through laziness and fear and real legitmate reasons such as fueling your ego? Fulfillment. What about my desires and giftings together? Someone goes to school to become a pastor. They desire this and its what they are good at. Are they using the talent that God gave them? But me? I went to a Bible school and also did music, neither of which I have used since. What about my ego? What's wrong with the limelight? Isn't it a sign of maturity to be able to stand in the limelight and not let it go to your head? Can we be in the limelight and not be afraid of it? Am I NOT doing something because of what I think it might do to me? Is this fear legitmate? Or does God want me to "step out" and not be afraid of the giants in the land. Isn't a lot of "ministry" in North America the "big stage" stuff but looks so unlike that picture of Steve the Builder in the middle of nowhere with no one watching? Isn't this self-self-flagellation?
Am I making sense? Probably not. OK. Forget it.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 1/22/2011 6:27 PM (GMT -6) | | I think the bottom line is this: The "if only" line of thinking is exactly the failure to "give thanks in all things" and "do all things to the glory of God" in the Now. It is neglecting the "sacrament of the present moment." When our egos work on the "if only" scenarios, we fail in that moment in being thankfully present before God for the "daily bread" God's given us now. Actually, the "if only" syndrome (that can and does drives people seeking wealth and power from good intentions) are pretty much forms of Kierkegaardian despair. Why? Because it is EXACTLY the failure to be oneself as one actually is before God. To accept one's station and to use that station to the glory of God in love of God. The failure to accept oneself and one's present circumstances as "gift" and "task" for God in the present moment.
That's what I think he's essentially saying.
I'd agree, too. As I see it, egocentric patterns in the ego periphery lead to over-focus on the self's past and future (leading to despair over oneself and one's circumstances in the present) that pushes one OUT OF the utter "gift" of the Present Moment (in Grace) and the "task" that is before them...right where they are. I know I fall into this a lot.
Whatcha think?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/22/2011 5:35:12 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 1/22/2011 7:15 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
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| Posted 1/22/2011 8:52 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 1/23/2011 3:21 AM (GMT -6) | | I agree that "if only" thinking is not giving thanks or doing all things for God's glory in the NOW. I don't know if it is really "if only" that I'm speaking of here. That sounds like regret in terms of, "I could have done ****, but because of **** (unfortunate event) I didn't and now I wish I had." What I'm speaking about is more along the lines of, burying your talent or say, not using your time wisely. For example, think of this in terms of the warfare worldview or vice-regency with Christ. It can actually make you feel guilty because you are not "stepping up to the plate" so to speak for any number of reasons which may or may not be legitmate ie., fear, not using time wisely, legitmate concerns about the process (in my case with regard to Christian music, I was concerned about my ego becoming over-inflated, the industry as a whole being lame, ego-centric driven, competition, self-flagellation, etc.) I sometimes I say, "Oh I wish I could have done this or that with music" (it doesn't even have to be big!) but I've struggled with A. tension of what I THINK might be my place in the Kingdom as God's co-regent in the world and B. the tensions mentioned above C. Both A and B together. As a result, I sometimes have said, "I've never really felt a "release" about this" and I don't know if I'm trying to make excuses for my not "taking up my responsibility" with regard to the giftings God has blessed me with.
This making sense to you D?
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 1/23/2011 3:26 AM (GMT -6) | | Truth be told, this is something that has weighed on my heart and mind for a long time. But do you see why the "co-regency" speak needs to be qualified? It can be grounds for some real guilt, I think, compared to what you are saying, D.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 1/23/2011 8:24 AM (GMT -6) | | Brandon:
What I'm speaking about is more along the lines of, burying your talent or say, not using your time wisely. For example, think of this in terms of the warfare worldview or vice-regency with Christ. It can actually make you feel guilty because you are not "stepping up to the plate" so to speak for any number of reasons which may or may not be legitmate ie., fear, not using time wisely, legitmate concerns about the process (in my case with regard to Christian music, I was concerned about my ego becoming over-inflated, the industry as a whole being lame, ego-centric driven, competition, self-flagellation, etc.)
and...
Truth be told, this is something that has weighed on my heart and mind for a long time. But do you see why the "co-regency" speak needs to be qualified? It can be grounds for some real guilt, I think, compared to what you are saying, D.
Just my opinion. What I think I'm hearing sounds like self-judgement (and ensuing guilt) involving how good a steward/co-working of God one perceives themselves to be. In other words, if we perceive ourselves, rightly or wrongly, as being inadequate stewards, we hesitate to fully love and accept ourselves in the midst of such a state...and fall into anxiety and ministry/vocational confusion. This is essentially no different than the person who frets over whether or not they are truly in the "will of God for their lives" with respect to the exercise of their perceived God-given capabilities...who is so caught up in the fretting over past losses of opportunity for service or future losses of the same, that they forget Grace for themselves in the present moment.
Think of it this way. Even though bad stewardship may "grieve" God (and we really don't want to do that), we are never refused love and acceptance by God. God does want us to take responsibility for our stewardships. At the same time, God loves and accepts us just the same, whether we are fairly good stewards or absolutely horrible stewards of our talents and time. To not see ourselves from the same lens is to fall into unproductive feelings of guilt and shame. Being honest, I can see how we as Christians could get the idea the God DOESN'T unconditionally accept us from the Parable of the Talents itself. The way the lord in the parable responds to the "unprofitable servant" seems to be anything BUT unconditional acceptance, right? And so that anxiety over that forms strongholds of self-judgment where the wrathful lord of the parable becomes our own super-egoic "self-flaggelation" as you called it.
This is where taking the whole teaching of Scripture is important. The God imaged in the Parable of the Talents is ALSO the God imaged in the Parables of the "Prodigal Son" and "Laborers in the Vineyard."
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/23/2011 9:05:06 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 1/23/2011 12:44 PM (GMT -6) | | Yes. You have to know that that Parable of the Talents has been the "thorn in my flesh" so to speak for a long time. When I was a teenager in church I remember my pastor telling the story of a lady who was a wonderful piano player. She would recieve high accolades from everyone. At the same time she felt as if God was calling her to "lay her gift on the altar" (imagery from the Abrahamic story?). She never did pick it back up. Sure, she played in private. But not in public. Can we say that she was not taking up her responsibility? I don't think we can. I've oftened wondered if this has been me. Does God call us to do the same? If so, how do we know if what we are hearing is from God? I know of a few Christians (mostly musicians) who believed God had called them to lay down their gift on the altar. Thanks for hearing me out on this D. Appreciate it. 
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 1/23/2011 1:32 PM (GMT -6) | | Not a problem, B. 
Brandon:
When I was a teenager in church I remember my pastor telling the story of a lady who was a wonderful piano player. She would recieve high accolades from everyone. At the same time she felt as if God was calling her to "lay her gift on the altar" (imagery from the Abrahamic story?). She never did pick it back up. Sure, she played in private. But not in public. Can we say that she was not taking up her responsibility? I don't think we can. I've oftened wondered if this has been me. Does God call us to do the same? If so, how do we know if what we are hearing is from God? I know of a few Christians (mostly musicians) who believed God had called them to lay down their gift on the altar.
In the book "The Critical Journey", the authors talk about just this thing. In other words, such vocational "laying down" of what we may THINK are our main giftings to use can very well be a part of the process for unification with God.
I feel that way about preaching. I haven't preached a sermon in a long while now. Longest I've gone without it since leaving seminary. But that's ok with me...now. 
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 1/23/2011 1:52 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for the reference.
OK...definitely gonna get the book. Wish it was available on Kindle. Crap! 
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
Post Edited (BBBCanada) : 1/23/2011 12:56:19 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 1/23/2011 11:50 PM (GMT -6) | | Ordered!
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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Starkman
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Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 1/24/2011 6:26 PM (GMT -6) | | I'm listening to the podcast right now...
My take on the conversation in this thread is this: I had no say in the idea, architecture, designs, blue print or execution of God's plans and God's work. I'm simply a bondservant, a slave to Jesus Christ. I don't have a say about anything God is doing. I'm not to come up with trick ideas, plans for this or that ministry or anything else. I am a servant. I'm to do what I'm asked to do. I'm to go where He goes and do what He gives me to do. I'm to do only that what He tells me (it's enough to just get that part down much less complicate things with all my soulical efforts).
Despite the saying, "Oh, he's just so heavenly minded that he's no earthly good," I'm not at all interested in being "earthly" good. "Earthly" is that which defines itself by the world's ways, something that gets the earth dwellers of the book of Revelation in hot water. Nope, I'd rather be of no earthly good! I am, however, interested in being earthly useful, as God, not me, defines what's useful. Along with this is the practical and common sense usefulness that comes into play on a daily basis, those things that need to be done on earth and require little "Do I or do I not?" questioning. You just do them.
Simply stated, I'm not the least bit interested in using my gifts, even for the good, as I define it. Again, I do not discount the practical and common sense. Obviously, we can't live very well among each if we neglect these. I'm only saying that it's neither my job nor my place to decide when and where I will minister, use my gifts, work for the Lord and what have you. It is God's. And as far as I know, He's never felt the need to consult with me about His work. Further, Jesus was quite clear about what His ministry was and where it came from: the Father.
That said, if the Father doesn't move, doesn't speak, doesn't declare what's on His mind about what He is doing, then I will wait. I will, as that piano player did, lay my gift on the alter to the Giver and wait for His orders. It is that simple. It's not my position to question what God is and is not doing in my life. I'm simply to obey.
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One Love
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| Posted 1/28/2011 3:55 PM (GMT -6) | | | Fr. Stephen on point AGAIN...
January 28, 2011 by fatherstephen
What do you call a Christian whose mind is so constructed that belief in God is almost impossible?
Answer: a modern man.
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To approach Christianity as a “way of life” is to reject the Post-Christian world itself – to recognize the emptiness of secularism – and to set one’s life on a path that has no particular public standing in the world in which we live. To recognize Christ as the very source of our existence and well-being is to place nothing ahead of Him, or in competition with Him. It is to recognize that our true life is constituted by love of God, love of neighbor, and love of enemy. Everything else is subsidiary and of less significance. It is to place our life under the judgement of the End of all Things, rather than any other time or place.
The world which we now call the “modern” is simply one of many cultural arrangements that people have used for their daily intercourse. There is nothing inherently good or true in its constitution, nothing which demands our loyalty. Though “God” has been assigned a place within the secular order, such a place is not occupied by God, but only things which “stand” for God, and therefore are modern idols. A real God, is the end of all that secularism professes.
Amen on that.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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| Posted 1/30/2011 8:07 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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BBBCanada
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| Posted 2/3/2011 2:23 PM (GMT -6) | | The Critical Journey came in the mail today. Looking forward to reading it.
Brandon
It is the purpose that makes strong the vow, but vows to every purpose must not hold.--A friend.
To love without love is slavery--Mother Teresa
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One Love
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| Posted 2/4/2011 2:30 PM (GMT -6) | | Hope you really like it, B!
More good stuff from Fr. Stephen...
"True doctrine is of great importance because it reveals the nature and truth of God and the world to us. But such knowledge is not the final goal of the Christian life. Our final goal is indeed the true faith – that is – the love of God towards all the world dwelling within our hearts."
...
"...there is a recognition that the very simplist of all things – available to children and the weak minded (perhaps more truly available to them than the rest of us) – is the love of God dwelling in our hearts. Without this there is no true faith, no true salvation, no theosis, no true conformity to the image of God."
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 2/4/2011 1:34:51 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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