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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 5/23/2011 8:04 AM (GMT -6) |   | | This is just me. I think that the "end of the world as we know it" will be when humanity sees Creation from the perspective of the Holy Spirit.
The "universe" turns into one big burning bush, ablaze with Divine Presence without being consumed. When everyone has " Logos-Vision"
Then the "world" ends.
It will be the "Eighth Day" of Creation.
Both James Loder and Alexei Nesteruk end up saying virtually the same thing.
The end of the world as we know it is PERCEPTUAL.
For the humans in the "kingdom of light", the Sun of God's Presence will be welcome. For those in the "kingdom of darkness", it will be tortuous...at least for a while.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 5/23/2011 8:17 AM (GMT -6) | | Read the following in terms of the "Eighth Day" of Creation:
Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
And he said to the disciples, “The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, ‘Look, there!’ or ‘Look, here!’ Do not go out or follow them. For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. Remember Lot's wife. Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it. I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.” And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 5/23/2011 8:21 AM (GMT -6) | | Ok. GOOD way to say this.
Imagine "hesychasm" (Vision of the "Tabor Light" ) being a BASIC, COMMUNALLY SHARED HUMAN EXPERIENCE...not just a view had by a view.
The goal at this stage is a practice of the Jesus Prayer with the mind in the heart, which practice is free of images (see Pros Theodoulon). What this means is that by the exercise of sobriety (the mental ascesis against tempting thoughts), the Hesychast arrives at a continual practice of the Jesus Prayer with his mind in his heart and where his consciousness is no longer encumbered by the spontaneous inception of images: his mind has a certain stillness and emptiness that is punctuated only by the eternal repetition of the Jesus Prayer.
This stage is called the guard of the mind. This is a very advanced stage of ascetical and spiritual practice, and attempting to accomplish this prematurely, especially with psychophysical techniques, can cause very serious spiritual and emotional harm to the would-be Hesychast. St Theophan the Recluse once remarked that bodily postures and breathing techniques were virtually forbidden in his youth, since, instead of gaining the Spirit of God, people succeeded only "in ruining their lungs."
The guard of the mind is the practical goal of the Hesychast. It is the condition in which he remains as a matter of course throughout his day, every day until he dies. It is from the guard of the mind that he is raised to contemplation by the Grace of God.
The Hesychast usually experiences the contemplation of God as light, the Uncreated Light of the theology of St Gregory Palamas. The Hesychast, when he has by the mercy of God been granted such an experience, does not remain in that experience for a very long time (there are exceptions—see for example the Life of St Savas the Fool for Christ (14th Century), written by St Philotheos Kokkinos (14th Century)), but he returns 'to earth' and continues to practise the guard of the mind.
The Uncreated Light that the Hesychast experiences is identified with the Holy Spirit. Experiences of the Uncreated Light are allied to the 'acquisition of the Holy Spirit'. Notable accounts of encounters with the Holy Spirit in this fashion are found in St Symeon the New Theologian's account of the illumination of 'George' (considered a pseudonym of St Symeon himself); in the 'conversation with Motovilov' in the Life of St Seraphim of Sarov (1759–1833); and, more recently, in the reminiscences of Elder Porphyrios (Wounded by Love pp. 27 – 31).
I think that this is why Kallistos Ware says that the Prayer of the Heart (Jesus Prayer) will save the world.
Yup.
We know about the kingdom of God and the ultimate destiny of this world because we know the Christ-event. Christ through the cross, resurrection, and ascension left us with historical memory of the event and liturgical memory of the kingdom. The condescension fo the Logos of God into the world through the incarnation in Christ, and Christ's coming back to the kingdom through the resurrection and ascension, provide Christians with the typology of events that will happen to human beings, in particular with the image of the end of the world and the human being, as both transfigured and united back to God, leaving behind the images of the world in it's present state of flowing time.
One can imagine that when human beings reintegrate their personhood in God, so that their hypostatic constitution will no longer resemble the divisions in creation, human apprehension will change fundamentally. The vision of the universe, its articulation in space and in time, will cease to function at all, resembling more and more the hypostatic "apprehension" of the universe by the Logos himself, for whom the whole universe in its spatial and temporal span exists as an instant of truth, as the "eighth" boundless day, the aeon with no duration.
Alexei Nesturuk
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 5/23/2011 8:58:07 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 5/23/2011 8:51 AM (GMT -6) | | | The Spirit so radically expands the horizons of awareness, of space and time, of life and death (as noted by Calvin and others in the Reformed tradition such as Torrance and Barth), that such reductionistic notions become almost trivial. Thus is should be stressed that the main thrust of 1 Cor. 2 is not negative but overwhelmingly affirmative. It is not to denegrate nous or mind but to proclaim what is in the nous Christou (OL's Note: the mind of Christ). It is here that one sees and participates in "what eye has not seen and ear has not heard." What has not entered into the human mind, God has prepared for those who love him. This is open to those whose spirits, in agreement with the Holy Spirit, search out the deep things of creation and of God, and whose relationship to God preserves the vital relationality that marks them as bearers of the image of God. To be endowed by the Holy Spirit with the nous Christou is not other-worldly, but it is instead to perceive and to behold this world as if for the first time because it is knowing the world through the Logos, the One through whom all things have been made. The natural order then becomes, remarkably, the creation of God in which ever moment is sustained by God's grace alone.
James Loder
The Knight's Move
Page 49
Seeing the "logoi" of Creation in the One Logos by the power of the Holy Spirit.
On the Eighth Day, this will be just how humanity LIVES.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 5/23/2011 8:52 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Corey
Five with a Four-wing
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| Posted 5/23/2011 2:07 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 6/5/2011 5:23 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/7/2011 7:22 AM (GMT -6) | | Good song and video. But absolutely exemplary example of two-storeyed Protestant Christian thinking.
Two things:
1) Believe it or not, the type of church that Kanye was imitating is pretty much the type I was used to my whole life. The Black church, if you will.
2) What really gets me as I look at this now--as compared to when it first came out in 2003--is I immediately notice how much more one-storeyed I am now then I was then. But then again, I've read a lot more eastern Christianity than I ever did then. It's immediately noticable to me.
3) I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that that a majority of the Black church is INHERENTLY two-storeyed. In other words, there's a strong tendency to think of God as "up there" or utterly "outside" all this mess while we are "down here" utterly "inside" all this mess; Creation is seen as separate and separable from God.
Whatcha'll think? Controversial statement, I know. But...I've BEEN in this...and I KNOW what I used to believe as compared to now...and how it to totally affects everything you believe about who Jesus is.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/7/2011 7:30:05 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 6/7/2011 7:43 AM (GMT -6) | | | Yeah. What is the essential assumption of this perspective? Really look at it OBJECTIVELY as possible.
Precious Lord, take my hand
Lead me on, let me stand
I am tired, I am weak, I am worn
Through the storm, through the night
Lead me on to the light
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home
When my way grows drear
Precious Lord linger near
When my life is almost gone
Hear my cry, hear my call
Hold my hand lest I fall
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home
When the darkness appears
And the night draws near
And the day is past and gone
At the river I stand
Guide my feet, hold my hand
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home
Precious Lord, take my hand
Lead me on, let me stand
I'm tired, I'm weak, I'm lone
Through the storm, through the night
Lead me on to the light
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/7/2011 7:46 AM (GMT -6) | | | Hint: "Home" and "the light" is where the Lord currently is, the place where I currently am "not" (meaning I'm "lost" and "in darkness"). Moreover, I want to be "lead" there by Jesus?
Get it? This is experience of the "Void" from a two-storey presuppositional stance. See this. Dorsey penned "Precious Lord" in response to his inconsolable bereavement at the death of his wife, Nettie Harper, in childbirth, and his infant son in August 1932.
Then there's this one...
Well, I'm tired and so weary
But I must go along
Till the lord will come and call, call me away, oh yeah
Well the morning's so bright
And the Lamb is the light
And the night, night is as black as the sea, oh yes
(alt lyric: 'and the night, night is as fair as the day, oh yes')
(There will be peace in the valley for me, some day)
There will be peace in the valley for me, oh Lord I pray
(There'll be no sadness, no sorrow, my Lord,
no trouble, trouble I see)
There will be peace in the valley for me
Well the bear will be gentle
And the wolf will be tame
And the lion shall lay down, down by the lamb, oh yes
And the beasts from the wild
Shall be led by a child
And I'll be changed, changed from this creature that I am, oh yes
(There will be peace in the valley for me, some day)
There will be peace in the valley for me, oh Lord I pray
(There'll be no sadness, no sorrow, oh my Lordy, no trouble, trouble I see)
There will be peace in the valley for me, [for me]
"Call me away..." THAT's familiar. Very familiar. This song played at my grandfather's funeral. One of his favorite songs, thus in my family too.
If you want to know
Where I'm going?
Where I'm going, soon
If anybody ask you
Where I'm going
Where I'm going soon
I'm goin' up yonder
I'm goin' up yonder
I'm goin' up yonder
To be with my Lord
I can take the pain
The heartaches they bring
The comfort in knowing
I'll soon be gone
As God gives me grace
I'll run this race
Until I see my Savior
Face to face
I'm goin' up yonder
I'm goin' up yonder
I'm goin' up yonder
To be with my Lord
I'm goin' up yonder
I'm goin' up yonder
I'm goin' up yonder
To be with my Lord
The Lord is "up a yonder". You get more of his presence "up there" then down here.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/7/2011 8:00:00 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/7/2011 8:02 AM (GMT -6) | | | Wait a minute. This is the same presupposition that all those "Rapture 2011" had! Man...
Even the worldly PARADIES of Christianity presupposes it!
Scary thought for the day: I got through seminary being two-storeyed. Ugh.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/7/2011 8:20:15 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/7/2011 8:21 AM (GMT -6) | | | This article hit things right on the money!
We seem to have a fascination with ruination that extends beyond the possible or probable to the purely imagined. Look at how the end of the world provides an irresistible storyline in movies. Or recall how the Rapture predictions of Harold Camping spread like wildfire across the internet last month.
Jung would spot the high levels of mental illness in modern society as well, marked by the boom in prescribed anti-depressants and other drugs in the years after his death. He would see that even politicians and economists are becoming concerned that while a nation's material wealth can grow inexorably, it does not appear to deliver true happiness or fulfilment.
There are many factors that contribute to these trends. Jung was gripped by those that are psychological and reasoned that such concerns - real or imagined - arise in large part when we become disconnected from our spiritual side.
He argued that while modern science has yielded unsurpassed knowledge about the human species, it has led, paradoxically, to a narrower, machine-like conception of what it means to be a human individual.
This presumably explains why complementary therapies are flourishing in the 21st Century. They try to address the whole person, not just the illness or disease. Or it suggests why ecological lifestyles are appealing, because they try to reconnect us with the intrinsic value of the natural world.
In short, the life of the psyche is crucial. Jung believed it is fed not just by psychology, but better by the great spiritual traditions of our culture, with their subtle stories, sustaining rituals and inspiring dreams. The agnostic West has become detached from these resources.
It is as if people are suffering from "a loss of soul". Too often, the world does not seem to be for us, but against us.
Remember how Greg used to say a lot in his sermons that we Western Christians usually operate as functional deists or practical atheists? The ONLY WAY that's possible is to have a belief in the essentially separateness or separability of Creation from God.
And think about how FAR this whole line of thinking is...from what's necessary for conceptualizing hesychasm and theosis! 
Western Christianity is suffering from a lack of "Orthodoxy". Really and truly.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/7/2011 8:28:13 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 6/7/2011 2:56 PM (GMT -6) | | Total confirmation.
Fr. Moses Berry speaking...
I'm still thinking that John Wesley is the best link between Evangelicalism, Pentecostalism, and Eastern Orthodoxy, historically speaking. Wesley STUDIED the Fathers and theosis. Whatcha think, Tom?
If one took Wesley's Quadilateral seriously, considering Tradition as including the same Fathers that Wesley himself read...then that would go a LONG way...right?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 6/7/2011 3:00:37 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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