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Originally posted by Wahoo

Tigress: Doc, does this movie show Christ's resurrection?

GregBoyd: Its clear Christ rises, but not a whole lot is done with it.

Borg: Perhaps “The Passion” is dishonoring God… all Hollywood can do is produce the man side of Christ, therefore we are diminishing Christ of His glory as God incarnate.

MephEternal: Why the crucifixion when the incarnation was the point? Its no wonder a righteous man would die when innocent people are killed everyday.

Stakman: He's (Gibson) not orthodox in his Christian theology… I don't think Mel has the slightest clue as to why Christ died… There's very little on the resurrection also, because, again, it doesn't (I don't believe) contribute towards what Gibson thinks really drives the meaning of the cross of Christ.

BBBCanada: Could not the true scandal of the Cross be obscured by such reflection on the physical suffering of Christ?

How did each of you come to understand the incarnation and the scandal of the cross? Didn’t the resurrection sound like a fairy tail until you understood?
Now when the centurion saw what had happened, he began praising God, saying, “Certainly this man was innocent.” Lk 23:47

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Originally posted by feelinahole

POW: read the article. Having read Green's The Open Door book found the article unsurprising. I will take Gibson's realism over Green's "awe" anyday.

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An Easter Sermon

Are there any who are devout lovers of God?
Let them enjoy this beautiful bright festival!

Are there any who are grateful servants?
Let them rejoice and enter into the joy of their Lord!

Are there any weary from fasting?
Let them now receive their due!

If any have toiled from the first hour,
let them receive their reward.

If any have come after the third hour,
let them with gratitude join in the feast!

Those who arrived after the sixth hour,
let them not doubt; for they shall not be short-changed.

Those who have tarried until the ninth hour,
let them not hesitate; but let them come too.

And those who arrived only at the eleventh hour,
let them not be afraid by reason of their delay.

For the Lord is gracious and receives the last even as the first.
The Lord gives rest to those who come at the eleventh hour,
even as to those who toiled from the beginning.

To one and all the Lord gives generously.
The Lord accepts the offering of every work.
The Lord honours every deed and commends their intention.

Let us all enter into the joy of the Lord!

First and last alike, receive your reward.
Rich and poor, rejoice together!

Conscientious and lazy, celebrate the day!
You who have kept the fast, and you who have not,
rejoice, this day, for the table is bountifully spread!

Feast royally, for the calf is fatted.
Let no one go away hungry.
Partake, all, of the banquet of faith.
Enjoy the bounty of the Lord's goodness!

Let no one grieve being poor,
for the universal reign has been revealed.

Let no one lament persistent failings,
for forgiveness has risen from the grave.

Let no one fear death,
for the death of our Saviour has set us free.


The Lord has destroyed death by enduring it.
The Lord vanquished hell when he descended into it.
The Lord put hell in turmoil even as it tasted of his flesh.

Isaiah foretold this when he said,
"You, O Hell, were placed in turmoil when he encountering you below."


Hell was in turmoil having been eclipsed.
Hell was in turmoil having been mocked.
Hell was in turmoil having been destroyed.
Hell was in turmoil having been abolished.
Hell was in turmoil having been made captive.

Hell grasped a corpse, and met God.
Hell seized earth, and encountered heaven.
Hell took what it saw, and was overcome by what it could not see.

O death, where is your sting?
O hell, where is your victory?

Christ is risen, and you are cast down!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life is set free!
Christ is risen, and the tomb is emptied of its dead.

For Christ, having risen from the dead,
is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Christ be glory and power forever and ever. Amen!

+ + +

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Originally posted by feelinahole

To each his own, POW. From my perspective, Green (like most Orthodox), perfers to sanitize the earthiness of who Jesus was. Compare your icon with how Jesus looks at the end of the Passion. Stark difference. What Green wants is reverence. The Passion is a depiction of the suffering of Jesus. It wasn't pretty and no one was bowing down. Again, I perfer Gibson's stark reality to Green's (and your icon's) sanitizing. But thats me.
Fear or love? Have no idea what you are talking about. I see it as the difference between reality and a false loftiness.
FYI...I tend not to read long quotes...if its not in a person's own words I probably will not read it. Sorry (unless of course its an article by someone such as Pinnock).

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Psalm 16
9 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest secure,
10 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
11 You have made known to me the path of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence,
with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

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Romans 4:25 "He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification."

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Ye choirs of new Jerusalem,
Your sweetest notes employ,
The Paschal victory to hymn
In strains of holy joy.

For Judah’s Lion bursts His chains,
Crushing the serpent’s head;
And cries aloud through death’s domains
To wake the imprisoned dead.

From hell’s devouring jaws the prey
Alone our Leader bore;
His ransomed hosts pursue their way
Where Jesus goes before.

Triumphant in His glory now
To Him all power is given;
To Him in one communion bow
All saints in earth and heaven.

While we, His soldiers, praise our King,
His mercy we implore,
Within His palace bright to bring
And keep us evermore.

All glory to the Father be,
All glory to the Son,
All glory, Holy Ghost, to Thee,
While endless ages run.

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Originally posted by PotOnWheel

The Lord has destroyed death by enduring it.
The Lord vanquished hell when he descended into it.
The Lord put hell in turmoil even as it tasted of his flesh.

Isaiah foretold this when he said,
"You, O Hell, were placed in turmoil when he encountering you below."

Hell was in turmoil having been eclipsed.
Hell was in turmoil having been mocked.
Hell was in turmoil having been destroyed.
Hell was in turmoil having been abolished.
Hell was in turmoil having been made captive.

Hell grasped a corpse, and met God.
Hell seized earth, and encountered heaven.
Hell took what it saw, and was overcome by what it could not see.
-------------------------------------------
For Judah’s Lion bursts His chains,
Crushing the serpent’s head;
And cries aloud through death’s domains
To wake the imprisoned dead.

From hell’s devouring jaws the prey
Alone our Leader bore;
His ransomed hosts pursue their way
Where Jesus goes
before.
-------------------------------
1. Haven't really read what we are talking about? (I can point to two consecutive paragraphs that nail it. Want me to say which two? Tell me.)

2. You seem to want a gory picture of Christ in heaven. Do you think Christ Jesus has open wounds in heaven? That's the comparison you make above. (Maybe you didn't realize that.) The icon of the resurrection is a dogmatice statement (theology in color) about OUR resurrection in Christ (of whom He is the "first fruits"). And as such he is "in the land of the living" (love that verse).

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How was victory attained without the cross? ANSWER: IT WASN'T!

How was Jesus portrayed as not victorious in the film? ANSWER: I didn't see the film.

Would you exclude yourself from the holy communion because it focuses on Jesus blood and his flesh? ANSWER: NO WAY. IT IS THE "FOUNTAIN OF IMORTALITY."

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Originally posted by Wahoo

POW,

That was a good article you posted and it shows how personal the subject matter of this film is to Christians, even Mel Gibson, as warped and twisted everyone makes him out to be. You sound like you are trying to point out some false statement of the film by compare/contrasting to some scripture and poems. But I don’t see where the message of the film departs from what you have presented.

How was victory attained without the cross?

How was Jesus portrayed as not victorious in the film?

Would you exclude yourself from the holy communion because it focuses on Jesus blood and his flesh?

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Originally posted by PotOnWheel

to answer the question of what Christ DID on the Cross for us, one might need to ask the question "what needed fixing."

The Gothic tradition (14th cent.) of the passion (pieta) brought into public consciousness the message introduced (11th cent.) by Anselm, archbishop of Canterbury, England.

Sin: Infraction or Infection?
by Frederica Mathewes-Green
www.frederica.com/orthodox/infraction-infection.html

[quote] Anselm believed that God could not merely forgive us, because our sins constituted an objective wrong in the universe. It could not be made right without payment. No human could pay such a huge debt, but Jesus' blood was more than sufficient to pay it, which gave Jesus a “claim” on God the Father. “If the Son chose to make over the claim He had on God to man, could the Father justly forbid Him doing so, or refuse to man what the Son willed to give him?”

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