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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/25/2012 11:30 AM (GMT -6) |   | |
Tom:
Hooper will join you perhaps in jumping all over Santorum for thinking our gods are materially different and for playing on those equally stupid, beer-drinking, red-necked Sourth Carolinians (one could see an implied insult to them in your arguments after all; their too stupid to see past Santorum's rhetoric), but both of you would miss something equally or more important--whether Islam is compatible with democracy and equal rights.
::literally slaps forehead and rolls eyes::
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/25/2012 10:41:33 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/25/2012 12:55 PM (GMT -6) | | Santorum's statement:
"I get a kick out of folks who call for equality now, the people on the left, 'Well, equality, we want equality.' Where do you think this concept of equality comes from?" said Santorum, according to ABC News. "It doesn't come from Islam. It doesn't come from the East and Eastern religions, where does it come from? It comes from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that's where it comes from."
Possible interpretations:
1) "He wants people to know that the values/equalities they enjoy aren't achievable via Islam." (Quote of Tom)
2) He wants people to know that the values/equalities they enjoy come from Judeo-Christianity, not any other belief structures like Islam and "the East and Eastern religions."
There is a DISTINCTION between the two that can fail to be made, if not careful. I say #2 is what Santorum was (problematically) trying to say. Even though I DO AGREE with #1, I don't think that's what he was espousing. The question is what would lead a person to say that Santorum was espousing #1.
Just waitin' on my callback...
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/25/2012 11:58:59 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/25/2012 3:18 PM (GMT -6) | | A rep from CAIR just returned my call. Corey Saylor, I believe.
Great guy. Really nice. Was really helpful.
In short, what I was told was that CAIR (via Hooper) first sent Santorum a PRIVATE letter complete with a Quran and a statement from the Pope on Christianity and Islam both being Abrahamic religions. A more public offering was made later. Mr. Saylor confirmed that the Surah that I mentioned was on of those in consideration. Saylor said there were two things addressed 1) Islam is a Abrahamic religion 2) As such, Christians, Jews, and Muslims have a root tradition from whence equality and justic is discussed. I did confirm that the MAIN issue which lead to the letter was Santorum's separation of Islam from being an Abrahamic religion.
So...there we have it.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/25/2012 2:23:09 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/25/2012 7:29 PM (GMT -6) | |
| Posted By : One Love - 1/21/2012 1:06 PM |
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"I get a kick out of folks who call for equality now, the people on the left, 'Well, equality, we want equality.' Where do you think this concept of equality comes from?" said Santorum, according to ABC News. "It doesn't come from Islam. It doesn't come from the East and Eastern religions, where does it come from? It comes from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that's where it comes from."
Would anyone like to guess why this statement is absolutely ignorant and idiotic?
Take a guess. A few of the posters seem to have caught it....
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
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Post Edited (One Love) : 1/21/2012 1:11:31 PM (GMT-6) | 
| Posted By : Tom - 1/21/2012 5:09 PM |
I don't see what that particular verse has to do with Santorum's comment, which isn't entirely bereft of truth. Islam at its best doesn't actualize the equality between the genders which is possible via the gospel, not that Christians have historically done a great job of realizing that equality themselves. But it's easy to show that its possible given the gospel. It's not easily established (indeed, I doubt it is establishable at all) via the Quran and Hadith. For example, why should the testimony of a woman be worth only 1/2 that of a man's, so that three women have to agree in testimony to overturn the word of one man? Did Muhammad really visit hell and come back to inform us that it's 2/3 women?
Tom
"The aesthetic value the world has for God is in expressing, not constituting, the aesthetic value God eternally finds within Godself." Greg Boyd
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Post Edited (Tom) : 1/21/2012 5:12:55 PM (GMT-6) |
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/25/2012 7:49 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/27/2012 11:13 AM (GMT -6) | | | Hmmm...maybe I should send this to CAIR and see what they say. Yep, I'm still on it.
The Abrahamic Religions Common “Tradition”
Torah-asserted, Jesus-affirmed Commandments from God (Deut 6:8-9; Lev 19:9-18)
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
Torah-asserted, Jesus-affirmed Criteria for "Loving Your Neighbor As Yourself"(Lev 19:9-18)
1) When you gain from your work, don't just think about yourself. Think of the poor and the wayfarer.
2) Don't steal.
3) Don't operate by false pretenses or motives.
4) Don't lie to each other.
5) Don't oppress or rob your neighbor.
6) Don't mistreat the physically (or mentally) challenged.
7) Don't promote injustice or partiality. Judge righteously.
8) Don't slander others.
9) Don’t threaten the life of your neighbors.
10) Don't hate your brother (or sister) "in your heart."
11) Don't take vengeance for yourself.
12) Don't hold a grudge against your neighbor.
The "New" Commandment from Jesus...
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another."
"This is my command: Love each other."
Verification of Jesus' teachings by His followers...
"For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another." --1 John 3:11
For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” --Galatians 5:13-14
The Core Message of Jesus as God's Prophet and Messenger:
Human beings are to express singular worship of and submission to the One Uncreated Creator by a) thanksgiving, adoration and glorification to the Creator and b) works of loving-kindness and compassion to others and ourselves. In this, we are also to consecrate ourselves and be holy, compassionate, merciful, and loving because our Creator is holy, compassionate, merciful and loving.
I'd REALLY want to see what they'd say about the "Core Message" aspect.
I honestly don't see any "Western-style" Muslims having any problem with this at all. Not from what I've been seeing lately. Maybe this wouldn't work in Syria or Lebanon. But with people like Saylor and others, probably so.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 1/27/2012 10:17:20 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/14/2012 2:35 PM (GMT -6) | | I forgot about this. Gonna try to visit CAIR Minnesota, sometime. It's just in downtown Minneapolis. I wanna talk to someone about the Abrahamic religions angle specifically with the ideas above. (I will assume that they know about "A Common Word" but this is different.) I mean, if they did so much to affirm that common heritage, then surely this can be at least consonant with what they've already said and done. Right?
Anyways, trying to go this week or next. Called and spoke to someone. Waiting for a callback to set up an appointment.
From their main website...
"In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful"
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Proposal...
The Core Message of Jesus as God's Prophet and Messenger:
Human beings are to express singular worship of and submission to the One Uncreated Creator (known personally by Abraham) by a) thanksgiving, adoration and glorification to the Creator and b) works of loving-kindness and compassion to others and ourselves. In this, we are also to consecrate ourselves and be holy, compassionate, merciful, and loving because our Creator is holy, compassionate, merciful and loving.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 2/14/2012 1:49:51 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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