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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/11/2012 9:57 PM (GMT -6) |   | | I remember watching Whitney Houston's first videos in the 80s. I positively LOVED her. So did my mother.
She was troubled, but truly a queen. A queen.
One of the greatest voices on the Earth.
God bless her family...and God give her rest.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
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| Posted 2/11/2012 10:44 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/14/2012 6:25 AM (GMT -6) | | 1) It's interesting you mention this, Brandon. I watched the Grammys this year. Haven't in at least 6 years. But I wanted to see this year how they would handle the Whitney situation, being as it was unavoidable.
[Digression: I wouldn't be surprised to see the viewership of this years Grammys skyrocketed by all those who thought the same way. Hmmm..]
It was very precarious. How do you give due, genuine respect to a virtual pillar in your field (music) while allowing the winning artists and teams their due, genuine respect? How do you NOT ignore Whitney...but also not turn the Grammys to "A Salute to Whitney". I actually think they struck as good a balance as it could have gotten. At any rate,one of the things they did was to take time to mention ALL of the important people in music who died recently. I guess they figured that was the only way to be fair to all the varieties of musical prowess present. It was a LONG list of people, y'all. WAY long. Not disrespecting at all. Just saying that there were MANY deserving people whose deaths would probably never have been known to the general populace...if it had not been for the DEATH of Whitney to promote the consciousness of honoring the dead to the Grammy situation. It's kinda interesting how the death of a "fallen" star would be the main reason some of the "unfallen" stars even got known at ALL. So, all that just goes with your first part.
2) Yes, fans are partly responsible. We always "hail" people, then they "nail" people (Lauryn Hill). Fans have the pleasure of judging their idols when they have little understanding of how much of a personal, emotional toll BEING their idol is. Then, when they inevitably fall from all the weight we as fans put on them, we have rich righteous indignation to pour out on a star we so valued turning themselves into drug-riddled slow suicide...supposedly because we would never "sink so low" ourselves. But everyone wants to be a star...and (American) Idol!
Our culture is demented...and we do not realize it. Maybe we do but we just don't care anymore. We are powerful and rich...so what does it matter how sane and sustainable we are.
Ricky Gervais was, I believe, on point with his article on fame.
I've always been fascinated by the subject of fame. Probably because I've never really understood it. Or rather, I've never really understood why people would put fame above all else. And it seems to be getting worse. A recent university survey asked a sample of 10-year-olds what they wanted to be when they grew up. They answered "famous." Just famous.
I guess I always wanted to be eminent. That's the old word for fame, by the way. Being known for something. Being known for being good at something. Maybe even the best at something. "Fame" used to be fused with "respect" in some ways. That's what distinguished it from infamy. But not any more.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 2/14/2012 5:39:28 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/14/2012 6:37 AM (GMT -6) | | Thought:
The search for "being known for something" maybe a direct existential reply for the belief that if you are NOT "known" to/by others, then you are not really existent. Think about the koan "If a tree falls in the forest and no one perceives it, does it really exist?" idea apply to human existential reality. Your existence is supposedly "worthless" if no one knows who you are. You are a "nobody" who wants to be "somebody" to someone or everyone. Supposedly to be "known" all over the world would cement one's existence and worth to oneself. But we see where that gets people. It's really a cry for love, at base.
I think this comes from our inherent relational, social nature. We are DESIGNED (Jeff  ) to have our self-relational beings sustained by being "known" by another. We just look for the "Knower" ultimately in the wrong place: other humans or ourselves. Being "known" to God destroys the desire for fame/infamy because it fills our need for personal self-other knowledge, without having us to USE other people or ourselves to attempt to meet the need.
In short, knowledge of God (including being "known" by God as Knower) is just what the human being needs to have an undefeatable ground of personal, relational "self-existence." Speaking according to the koan, the tree "exists" because, regardless if any creature perceives it, God perceives it. If I know that I am personally "known" and loved of the Creator of the entire universe, why would I care about who ELSE knows me?
What do you think?
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 2/14/2012 5:44:32 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/14/2012 9:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Another thought:
Only when a person conceives of God knowing and loving oneself, with depth and intensity...as if he/she were the ONLY THING that existed...can that person fully understand how much God actually loves the "neighbor"...and WHY God wants us to love our neighbor with that in mind. God loves EVERY person just that...just like a loving parent loves all their children, uniquely and totally.
PS: Hope this don't get me in trouble.  But, on the real, Tom and his wife are one of the best examples of parenthood that I've ever seen in my life. You've been personally inspiring to me, bro. Gracias, mi hermano Tortuga.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Post Edited (One Love) : 2/14/2012 10:53:58 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 2/14/2012 1:02 PM (GMT -6) | | Brandon:
Let me ask you this. Why then, do you think, some (many) who are famous don't come to this fate in their lives? Is there something else going on with regard to Whitney, ie., some character defect that brings her to this point but not others? Or is what you are saying the main thing? In other words, you have these famous persons who never "fall" which is hard as it is, nor do they have to "dig themselves back out" which is hard in and of itself as well.
1) More people of fame have dysfunction than the media shows, I would think.
2) Some people's thresholds for the relational pressure are higher than others. Speaking specifically about Whitney, Aretha Franklin, her godmother, spoke directly to this in an interview on CNN saying that, along with her exposure to drugs and stuff, it was always difficult for Whitney to maintain her fame and crossover appeal. And that lead to certain less-than-helpful choices. So things do go by the individual too.
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Brandon:
And the whole underlying problem is the fundamental issue you are talking about, the desire to be known. Its a good thing gone in a bad direction.
Exactly.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 2/14/2012 4:36 PM (GMT -6) | | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1-61T_ewI
and
http://cards6.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/aretha-franklin-gave-insight-on-whitney-houstons-death-on-cnn/
From the last link:
"Aretha Franklin gave a telling an informative interview on CNN on Whitney Houston’s death on Sunday night. Aretha Franklin was Whitney’s Godmother and early on helped to shape and guide her career. She was a close friend to Whitney’s mom, Cissy Houston as well. She talked about the pitfalls of being an overnight star and the pressures of stardom that come with it. Aretha felt that Whitney was turning the corner on the difficulties that she had encountered. However Aretha shed light on the pressures of stardom and gave heartfelt advice to those in the entertainment or in the public eye. She said her father, Rev. C.L. Franklin once told her that you must prepare yourself for the time when the music stops, the accolades go away, and someone younger than you enters the spotlight and perhaps takes it away from you. That day will come. Her advice was to prepare yourself for it, and be prepared for life after stardom.
That is insightful and practical advice that not only applies to those in the entertainment industry, but also in major league sports, and other fields. Athletes as well must prepare themselves for the day when they cannot jumps as high, run as fast, shoot better, pass better than the next person. There is definitely an up and coming younger person that commands the spotlight and suddenly the fame and fortune is gone. Those in the public eye must be able to deal with these changes. Aretha Franklin has withstood the test of time and continues to be an icon in the music industry despite her age, her fame continues."
Brandon
Since love grows within you, so beauty grows. For love is the beauty of the soul.--Saint Augustine
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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 2/17/2012 3:48 PM (GMT -6) | | On Lauryn Hill:
There were a number of different reasons. But partly, the support system that I needed was not necessarily in place. There were things about myself, personal-growth things, that I had to go through in order to feel like it was worth it. In fact, as musicians and artists, it's important we have an environment – and I guess when I say environment, I really mean the [music] industry, that really nurtures these gifts. Oftentimes, the machine can overlook the need to take care of the people who produce the sounds that have a lot to do with the health and well-being of society, or at least some aspect of society. And it's important that people be given the time that they need to go through, to grow, so that the consciousness level of the general public is properly affected. Oftentimes, I think people are forced to make decisions prematurely. And then that sound radiates."
– Hill talks about why she left music.
Brandon
Since love grows within you, so beauty grows. For love is the beauty of the soul.--Saint Augustine
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