Post Edited (BBBCanada) : 3/29/2012 9:31:02 PM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/30/2012 7:18:42 AM (GMT-5)

(Tom applauds again!   Bennett even mentions MLK.  Shocker. )

AT THE SAME TIME...two things.

1) This whole bruhaha is blowing up like this because Zimmerman has NOT been taken in for SERIOUS questioning. We ain't even talking about ARRESTED. We are simply talking SERIOUS questioning.  It's been how long?

2) Bennett mentions...

The leading cause of death for black male teenagers is homicide, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. Of all the black homicide victims, about 93% are killed by other black people. In 2011, nearly 85% of all people murdered in Philadelphia were black. Where are the marches and protests for these victims? Is it justice people seek or are they looking and even hoping for signs of white racism so they can exploit it?

I think his statements prove WAY too much if you dig deeper. Does he REALLY want to go into all of the institutional, long-term reasons for such despairing numbers?  Does he really want to raise the consciousness of the malady for the sake of perfecting the broken American system in which this takes place?  Or does he mention this to basically say "Hey, blacks kill more blacks than other races! Why not seek justice for that?" I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say the former. He just didn't have time to get into it.

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/30/2012 9:55:14 AM (GMT-5)

Forget that.  Sometimes, I downright HATE it.

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/30/2012 9:56:05 AM (GMT-5)

Brandon: The only one saying to wait till all the evidence is in is you.

Tom: The only one of us three (you, D, and me) you mean? Yeah. But not the only one in America.

Brandon: As if we can't even have an opinion. I'm saying from my intuition Zimmermann is…

Tom: Bro, of course you can have an opinion. Have at it. I’m totally fine with that. I’m not saying don’t form an opinion. I’m saying I’m not forming one—and I don’t need to form one—at this point on his guilt OR innocence. Do YOU require an opinion on his guilt or innocence? Why? What are you DOING with your conviction re: his guilt? It seems like you think that since I won’t agree he’s guilty I must think he’s innocent. But I don’t know either.

Brandon: Here, let me ask it like this. Does Zimmerman have ANY MORAL culpability in your mind? Should we just totally let him off the hook then? He WAS TOTALLY and completely faultless? Because that's what you seem to want to say. Intuitively THAT doesn't sit well with me.

Tom: I don’t have an opinion on Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence. He certain was the OCASSION of the altercation. Sure, had he not been out and about that evening this wouldn’t have happened. In THAT sense sure, he shares responsibility. But so do his parents for giving birth to him, but that’s not the kind of ‘responsibility’ we’re talking about. You mean he’s directly morally responsible for Treyvon’s death. I honestly can’t say that since that would mean rendering a final judgment on the evidence, and I don’t have all that on hand. I’m happy leaving that to the jury.

But Brandon, you go from YOU (an uninvolved observer forming an opinion that you admit is not legal and isn’t sufficient for a court of law) having “an opinion” to “OUR totally letting him off the hook.” But your opinion can’t put him ON the hook OR get him off. It’s just your opinion. So which opinion do you want to discuss—your free opinion to conclude his guilt based on the evidence you see on the news (which you admit is insufficient for a court of law) OR the opinion of the jurors? It’s the jurors who decide to hook him or not. Do you need an opinion in order for them to do their job?

It’s unreasonable to think public opinion should not be formed. I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s just public opinion. Sometimes it’s right. Sometimes it’s wrong. OJ killed his wife and her lover (IMO). He got off. Good lawyer. It happens. The system is imperfect. But it’s better than polling public opinion.

D, this is not Rodney King. I mean, the evidence isn’t identical in both. Yes, in State court the LAPD officers were acquitted. But in Federal court two of the four officers were convicted and went to jail (for shorter times than they should have if you ask me) and King received $3.8 million. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than polling public opinion and having judges sentence defendants based on the polling data? Yes.

Our justice system IS historically problematic and biased, yes. And we’ll remain skeptical of it, yes. Any system will be. I’m not disagreeing. What do you think the answer to this is, D? Eliminating the judiciary and just polling public opinion where 51% of those polled determines guilt or innocence? Would MY agreeing that Zimmerman is a violent racist who plotted to murder Trayvon help fix the system? If every white person in American agreed that Zimmerman is guilty, would that fix the system? What will fix it D?

D: Fourth, please answer my question: Is there enough evidence to take Zimmerman into custody at this point, Tom? In your own opinion.

T: I thought I answered above when I said: “I haven't been following the story for a few days now. But I understood he was in protective custody (due to threats on his life).”

My answer is: I don’t know. I still am not following the updates on the evidence. But Zimmerman and his whole family are in protective custody, right? So the police have him (and them as well!). They can’t go to work, can’t go to school, don’t go out in public, and law-enforcement are posted at the front door of every new location they move them to. Is THAT a perversion of justice? Help me see how it is, D. I want to see it as that if that’s what it is.

Justice is the truth being investigated and brought to light to establish ‘guilt’, evidence permitting, and to sentence the guilty as a consequence. Isn’t that what we want?

I will say this. I’m amazing that Obama is not on TV doing more to advise people to calm down. Come on. We all know he has no problems weighing in on this stuff. Where is he? Apart from one appearance (unless I’ve missed him on the news) he’s been peculiarly absent. Why? Why wouldn’t he continue to remind people to stay calm, to NOT rush to conclusions and to let the grand jury run its course? Does he want the tension? Does he want people to lose it? What ‘opinion’ should I form regarding his willful silence in the face of mounting public angst? Is this just a white man’s question? ... I first heard a black man ask it. Hmmm.

Tom

Post Edited (Tom) : 3/30/2012 11:13:33 AM (GMT-5)

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Tom:
Our justice system IS historically problematic and biased, yes. And we’ll remain skeptical of it, yes. Any system will be. I’m not disagreeing. What do you think the answer to this is, D? Eliminating the judiciary and just polling public opinion where 51% of those polled determines guilt or innocence? Would MY agreeing that Zimmerman is a violent racist who plotted to murder Trayvon help fix the system? If every white person in American agreed that Zimmerman is guilty, would that fix the system? What will fix it D?

What would begin to fix things is to discern what causes some fo the biases that render our justice system as problematic as it is.  Personally, I'm not looking for instant, vigilante justice.  Just justice.  How about looking at WHY that police chief got that "no confidence" vote?

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/30/2012 11:41:33 AM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/30/2012 11:55:56 AM (GMT-5)