This is gonna make people mad...

This is just as bad as Rodney King, evidence wise...

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/22/2012 6:08:28 AM (GMT-5)

Posted this on my facebook page.

There are three things that bother me about this case.

1.  I have not seen or heard the 911 tapes or transcripts though I know I can get them.  But I would like to know a "timeline" of sorts.  What happened, when and where in what order.  I know we have only Zimmerman's account but then we need witnesses, girlfriend, etc. By all accounts this GRAVELY looks like murder. 

2.  Conservative talk radio wants to say this isn't about racism.  I suppose there are things I have to look at like, for example, how many calls Zimmerman made over the course of a few months concerning blacks but left out whites.  But the bottomline is this.  Is there not SOME legitimacy to the "race card" in this situation?  Racism is varied.  Its not as if I have to look at Zimmerman's intentions and say, "He was racially motivated" to call this racism.  Its also the fact that this will occur more highly amongst blacks but not others.  That if someone were white that was killed by a black volunteer neighbourhood captain that they more than likely WOULD have been arrested. Conservative talk radio wants to exclusively focus on Zimmerman's intentions and that is a narrow understanding of racism IMO.  Can EVERYONE who calls this racism be wrong?

3.  I'm not a legal expert and maybe this has to do with that lame ass law down there in Florida that allows one the leeway to defend one's self, but why has there not been an arrest?  Not necessarily charges but an arrest. Why would someone NOT be PISSED?  about THE WHOLE THING.  Not just the murder but the injustice of the system and attitudes of those who want to defend it?

Or "perversion of justice".

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/26/2012 3:55:34 PM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (Tom) : 3/26/2012 4:50:04 PM (GMT-5)

Lemme ask this, Tom: Do you think that the authorities have enough information to take Zimmerman into custody?  Yes or no.

One month after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, nearly three out of four Americans say the police should arrest the neighborhood watch volunteer who pulled the trigger, according to a new national survey.

And the CNN/ORC International poll released Monday also indicates that three-quarters of the public says that neighborhood watch members should not be allowed to carry weapons.

Seventy-three percent of people questioned in the survey say that George Zimmerman should be arrested, with 11% disagreeing and 16% unsure. Zimmerman admits to shooting and killing Martin, an unarmed African-American teenager, in Sanford, Florida, on February 26.

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/26/2012 6:35:37 PM (GMT-5)

D: The divide happens again...

Tom: Ha! I refuse to let you place me on one side of a divide (if that’s what you meant by “the divide happens again”), whether yours or anybody else’s. You don’t have to draw that divide if you don’t want to.

D: Lemme ask this, Tom: Do you think that the authorities have enough information to take Zimmerman into custody? Yes or no.

Tom: I’m refusing to displace the rule of law. The question is: MUST the authorities have arrested him given the information/evidence? That is, have the authorities FAILED TO ENFORCE THE LAW by not arresting Zimmerman (given FL law)? It’s a simple question. I don’t know FL laws, but I haven’t heard anybody making the point that Sanford law-enforcement were bound by statutes to arrest Zimmerman.

SHOULD they have arrested him anyhow? That’s a different question, a moral one. If you want to make a moral argument about what they OUGHT to have done, go for it. But it’s a bit mitigated, for since Zimmerman has a bounty placed on his head by the New Black Panthers, he’s been placed in hiding and the authorities know exactly where he is. And he’s cooperating. Is this a "perversion" of justice? C’mon.

Do you think those of the Black Panthers who published a $10K bounty on Zimmerman’s head ought to be arrested? Isn’t hiring someone (by open contract via a published bounty) to kill someone else a clear violation of law? Now THERE is a clear failure to enforce the law (I suspect), a perversion of justice if you will. But are those screaming for “justice now” for Zimmerman also screaming that justice be served for Blank Panther leaders responsible for publishing a fatwa? Is anyone even concerned that organizations are offering to pay money to those who assassinate/kill other THEY think are guilty. And Zimmerman hasn't even gone to trial (if the grand jury decides he should). C'mon D. Say SOMETHING about the perversion of justice by the Blank Panthers. I'm gonna have trouble listening to you complain about Zimmerman otherwise.

You quote the percentages of Americans polled, but not Florida law. Maybe we don’t need laws or grand juries. Maybe we could just poll people to determine laws as well as guilt/innocence. But we live under the rule of law, not the rule of the majority polled. Last I checked, carrying a hand-gun with a license is a citizen’s right. If 3 out of 4 Americans believe citizens should be disallowed from being licensed to bear arms, they can petition their law-makers to amend the Constitution. That’s how they make their opinion matter.

D, I’m not on Zimmerman’s side or the side of the Sanford police. Nor am I on the side of those screaming for justice for some (Zimmerman) but not for others (Blank Panther authorities). I’m on the side of the law. If the authorities have failed to enforce some law in not arresting Zimmerman, then that’s wrong and it should be addressed.

Hugs,

Tom

Post Edited (Tom) : 3/26/2012 11:24:56 PM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/27/2012 7:30:12 AM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/27/2012 8:46:13 AM (GMT-5)

D: And the law is never immoral, or wrong, or biased against unprivileged peoples? Yeah.

T: Laws can be immoral and racially discriminating, yes. And if such a law is responsible for why Zimmerman was not arrested, I’d like to see it changed too. I know all the complaints about Sanford police as well, and I’m glad the Feds are involved and hope they identify whatever corrupt PERSONS or LAWS exist. But please don’t misunderstand me Bro. I’m just saying the answer is the ‘rule of law’. Where there are inadequate or immoral laws, identify and change them.

D: What do you know about privilege, Tom? Know what that is?

T: Yes. And having spent more than half my life as a racial and religious minority in countries were I was not a citizen, often despised by many in the majority (besides raising my kids in the same context), and having been discriminated against and become the object of some ridicule because I was “white,” “western” and “Christian,” I may have a bit of appreciation for the disadvantaged in this country too. I can ‘understand’ the sort of thing occurring here.

I’m just saying, identify the laws that disadvantage or those laws that should have been but were not enforced by corrupt individuals. Put your finger on them for us. THEN good change can come. Is anybody doing that here?

D: And I'd ask you this: WHY do you think that Black Panthers have taken to what they've done.

T: Because they’re in despair? Because they’ve betrayed MLK Jr’s legacy? Because they don’t read MLK Jr. and don’t believe in non-violence? Because they don’t know history? Because they prefer the easy (violent) way out instead of the hard (non-violent) way of love? Because they don’t share the faith from which MLK Jr’s superior way derives? Because they lack ENOUGH black heroes who keep MLK’s way alive (I mean REALLY alive)? All of these I suppose. You’ll suggest that one more reason is: Because they’re frustrated by being systemically shut out by a discriminating process. I agree. But so was MLK Jr. He was frustrated too. He was angered and grieved by oppressive culture and laws. I get that. But you KNOW what MLK Jr. would say to the Black Panthers don’t you? And he’d be saying it to them right now out loud and in their face. Because he’d know that the Panther bounty (and other violent responses to discrimination) a) undermines the justice which blacks seek by advocating injustice, and b) further entrench black suffering.

D: You’ve never been placed in custody while being walking while Black. Nor have you had to endure racial profiling for being Black. Nor have you grown up being called a nigger or "coon." I have.

T: I haven’t been arrested for just being white, no. But I was bussed to the particular High School (probably 3/4 % black) I went to just because I was white (integration). And I’ve been called cracker, honkey and white trash. Do these passing shots at me in school equate to your experience? In length and intensity, I’m sure they don’t. But they can help me understand. But have you been pulled behind the school building and beaten up by Arabs because you were American? No. Have you been unfairly charged or extorted financially because you were Western? No. Have you been cursed at by Muslims just because you’re a Christian? Have you had your wife groped in front of you because all white American women are hors? C’mon Bro.

Tom

Post Edited (Tom) : 3/27/2012 2:16:15 PM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/28/2012 7:45:13 AM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/28/2012 7:44:19 AM (GMT-5)

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/28/2012 9:12:31 AM (GMT-5)

Found this interesting...by jocean5 

Facts:
1. Zimmerman thought Martin looked suspicious and phoned the police
2. Zimmer got out of his SUV and pursued Martin, even though the police dispatcher advised him not to pursue him.
3. Martin had a right to be in the neighborhood and had no reason to explain himself to Zimmerman
4. Zimmer had a broken nose and bruises
5. Martin was shot and killed

Bottom Line: Zimmerman was wrong to pursue and question Martin, even the police advised him not to do this, but he did it anyway. He tried to take matters into his own hands.
If there was an altercation, Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. But so did Martin.     
Imagine being Martin, he did not know why this man was chasing him and was obviously being defensive. Zimmer begin the chase just because he looked suspicious, , so he provoked Martin first. Zimmerman is not a police officer and has no authority to chase after anyone.

Bottom line, Zimmerman tried to take the law into his own hands. Martin had every right to be in the neighborhood and had no obligation to answer to Zimmerman. Zimmerman chased after Martin and Martin and Zimmerman got into an altercation. Zimmerman may shot Martin in self-defense. But he tried to take the law into his own hands and things went wrong, and he shot ans killed an unharmed kid that had every right to be there and no obligation to explain anything to Zimmerman.

Zimmerman may not have murdered Martin because he was black but he sure profiled him, and profiled him wrongly. Again, Martin had the right to be there. Martin made the mistake of coming back, confronting Zimmerman for chasing him.We don't know who started the altercation but Martin shouldn't of come back.

Zimmerman shouldn't be charged with a racial murder but rather with manslaughter. He thought he was a cop, but that's why we train cops, to handle situations like this. This is what happens when amateurs think there professionals. They both made mistakes, Zimmerman for trying to take the law into his own hands and Martin for coming back and confronting Zimmerman. Either way, Zimmerman has to pay some sort of price for making this mistake. Unfortunately, Martin already did.

Post Edited (One Love) : 3/28/2012 11:08:03 AM (GMT-5)