Free will touches everything we value – law, politics, relationships, morality and more. And yet it is an illusion. We either live in a deterministic universe where the future is set, or an indeterminate one where thoughts and actions happen at random. Neither is compatible with free will."

 

Is there anything left to discuss at this point? That's what I've never understood. It gets back to Asher's "conditions of dialogue." Would anyone really dialogue if they actually held that belief 24x7, uninterrupted? But alas, they CAN'T. Teleology is a NATURAL belief that can be doubted at moments, but not utterly SHAKEN off to never return. It would be like trying to shake the belief in causality, per se, indefinitely. Can't be done.