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One Love
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   Posted 9/19/2012 10:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Quoting you-know-who from you-know-where...
 
 
"There is, it seems, no contradiction in maintaining that a being can be self-content on one level, and yet suffer at another. For example, a person need not sacrifice their self-love, their contentment with who they are, their own internal “fullness of life” in order to genuinely enter into the sufferings of another. Indeed, it seems that the person who enters into the sufferings of others with a sense of internal fullness is in a better position to genuinely enter into these sufferings than one who lacks such “fullness.”

To speak more specifically, a person who suffers for another because she needs the other—e.g., needs this other to make her “feel good” about herself, to feel loved and needed, etc.—is more inclined to yet have herself as the object of concern, and thus more inclined to be, to that extent, shut off to the real needs of the other. In contrast, one who enters into solidarity with a sufferer but who is self-content, who loves herself, who possesses an internal fullness which is not destroyed by the suffering, is free to have the sufferer as the sole object of her concern. She is free, in a sense, to “forget herself” in devotion to another.

In the case of the former person, one who “needs” the other to arrive at her self-love, the act of entering into solidarity with a sufferer is an expression of her deficiency. In the case of the latter person however, the act of entering into solidarity with a sufferer is an expression of her wholeness. And the more whole she is, the more perfectly she can suffer with and for the other. (62)

There are, of course, millions of humans who hold to a superficial form of self-contentment to the exclusion of, or even at the expense of, others’ happiness. In fact, the instances of an opposite disposition are unfortunately rare. The prevalence of this attitude, especially in first world countries, is no doubt one of the reasons why we have such difficulty in seeing God as being both eternally self-satisfied and also temporally self-abased. But, as we have argued, there is no necessary connection between self-contentment and insensitivity.

We may, then, conceive of God as one who is both unsurpassably self-content in God’s essential sociality, while being, at the same time, fully incarnated in the sin and suffering of the world in God’s expressive sociality. Indeed, implied in what we have argued thus far is the supposition that God is free to enter into and redeem the sufferings of the world fully precisely because God is eternally self-sufficient within Godself.
 
 

Note 62:

The analogy has, of course, a limited application to God in that all humans need other humans to be full within themselves. Their social nature is actualized only in relation to other humans. God too is social, but this sociality is satisfied within Godself. But the analogy does articulate that, as a person may enter into selfless solidarity with another out of fullness—a fullness derived from this person’s other relationships to humanity and to God—so God can enter into selfless solidarity with suffering humanity out of a fullness “derived” from this One’s “other” sociality—the eternal sociality God has within Godself."


Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Post Edited (One Love) : 9/19/2012 11:26:57 AM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 9/19/2012 11:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him."


Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

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One Love
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   Posted 9/19/2012 11:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Apatheia has to include the personal experience of God's inner "fulness" (uncreated love, joy, peace ala truine personal relationship) from the "inside" (ala being a son-in-the-Son via the Holy Spirit; epicletic, eucharistic life) ...and self-relating and world composition centrally from that perspective. Thus God's inner "fulness" is the utter ground of the believer's inner "fulness". 
 
This is living the unconditioned, eternal life.  Eternity within existence.
 
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.


Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Post Edited (One Love) : 9/19/2012 11:39:29 AM (GMT-5)

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One Love
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   Posted 9/19/2012 11:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Greg:
But the analogy does articulate that, as a person may enter into selfless solidarity with another out of fullness—a fullness derived from this person’s other relationships to humanity and to God—so God can enter into selfless solidarity with suffering humanity out of a fullness “derived” from this One’s “other” sociality—the eternal sociality God has within Godself."


Humans may fully love their neighbors as themselves with "selfless solidarity" healthily ONLY when done from the "fulness" from relating oneself to oneself in God  and His "fulness", which is an aspect of loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Then the love that we cannot be separated from, the joy of the Spirit, and the peace that passes all understanding grounds and empowers our love of self, world (neighbor), void, and Holy.


Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

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Tom
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   Posted 9/22/2012 11:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sad thing is, Greg dudn't believe any of that any more. Dang.

Tom


"The aesthetic value the world has for God is in expressing, not constituting, the aesthetic value God eternally finds within Godself." Greg Boyd

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Similitude
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   Posted 9/25/2012 5:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

 

So Greg doesn't believe the following any more?

"There is, it seems, no contradiction in maintaining that a being can be self-content on one level, and yet suffer at another. For example, a person need not sacrifice their self-love, their contentment with who they are, their own internal “fullness of life” in order to genuinely enter into the sufferings of another. Indeed, it seems that the person who enters into the sufferings of others with a sense of internal fullness is in a better position to genuinely enter into these sufferings than one who lacks such “fullness.”

If not, what does he believe instead concerning this?


 

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