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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:31 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Originally posted by Wahoo
quote:
Originally posted by msekee
I heard someone say once that studies have shown it's not how the woman looks but how the woman makes the man feel, at least where affairs are concerned.
I too have heard that in most affairs, the mistress is actually not as attractive as the wife. Its not about the beauty, but about the adventure of having an affair.
Wahoo
Yes, and that would of couse be a very different thing from looking for a WIFE. Affairs are about breaking the rules, seeking excitement, thrill-seeking, etc. They are definitely not about love (at least from a man's viewpoint). A good book on this whole subject is His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. Harley.
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:32 PM (GMT -6) | | I AM a man, and I fell in love with my wife while at a music festival. These are sweaty and dirty and she had really bad hair days, you know!?! Anyway, I was not physically attracted to her but I fell in love with her. Now, once we all packed up and got to take showers. YEEOWZA!
I can speak for the male experience and I know that the chemicals that get me all crazy are stimulated by seeing and touching. The imagination can trigger that too. But I also know that it doesn't take a symetrical face and swinsuit model physique either. I can either gratify myself or I can share that experience with my wife.
Wahoo | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:34 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Wahoo
That's really hard to accept. I think I have read somewhere that bearing the cross or the cost of discipleship actually means doing undesirable things. That is in the physical sense. I am just trying to connect the dots here. Your gonna have to explain that.
Wahoo
Okay, I think I see what the misunderstanding on this is. I'm definitely not saying that living the Christian life is the EASY way, or even that it is EQUALLY easy to sin or not sin in any given situation.
I'm simply saying that in choosing to take up one's cross and follow Jesus, one is by definition DESIRING God's will more than their own, difficult as it may be at times. Just like a godly husband chooses to stay faithful to his wife, even though he may have SOME desires that would lead him to have an affair. If he stays true, it is because his overriding desire was his loving committment to his wife. | | Back to Top | | |
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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:35 PM (GMT -6) | | John Earp,
I would contend that the desire to gratify my flesh and the desire (hope) to please God are not of the same substance. You are putting them in the same category like we are mice running through a maze. Let's see which desire he goes for!
Wahoo | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:37 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Wahoo
I AM a man, and I fell in love with my wife while at a music festival. These are sweaty and dirty and she had really bad hair days, you know!?! Anyway, I was not physically attracted to her but I fell in love with her. Now, once we all packed up and got to take showers. YEEOWZA!
Ever notice who the fans are of women's mudwrestling?
quote:
I can speak for the male experience and I know that the chemicals that get me all crazy are stimulated by seeing and touching. The imagination can trigger that too. But I also know that it doesn't take a symetrical face and swinsuit model physique either. I can either gratify myself or I can share that experience with my wife.
I hear ya. Definitely true.
About the "internet affairs" that happen, it seems we are talking apples and oranges here. By definition, an affair is not similar to a marriage in that no love-commitment is involved, and the whole thing is basically a thrill-seeking experience, not a truly love-seeking or life-seeking one. | | Back to Top | | |
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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:43 PM (GMT -6) | | Okay, I see we men are talkin on the level.
Hopefully the ladies can understand that a man is not made out of his physical, unsinful desires. Some men do let those desires dictate what they choose. Those should not be the men you care to date. But the ones who will notice you, the real you and not the emotionally unstable creature that you live in, they will develop a passion and a desire to treat you like the queen. Hear?
Wahoo | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:45 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Wahoo
John Earp,
I would contend that the desire to gratify my flesh and the desire (hope) to please God are not of the same substance. You are putting them in the same category like we are mice running through a maze. Let's see which desire he goes for!
Wahoo
I'm simply saying that one has to desire God above all in order to abstain from the desires of the flesh, as it says in:
Rom. 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; BUT IF by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Eph. 4:22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Gal. 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
In short, there are only two paths any of us can walk on at the same time, pleasing our flesh or pleasing God. As Jesus said, you cannot serve two masters. Romans 6 also makes this abundantly clear.
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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msekee
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 30
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:48 PM (GMT -6) | |
"I once read that "when you're ready, it will happen." I think there is much truth in that statement, though I know it pains us to have to defer instant gratification for a long-term goal of a fulfilling marriage. All during my 20s and into my early 30s, I was horribly tormented as a VERY normal male desperately NEEDING a wife, and yet trying very hard to keep my thought life pure. When I met and began dating the wonderful lady I'm now married to, I had a lot of trouble in my mind, trying to discern if she was God's will for me. One night during a revival service, I was in the altar area praying for God to show me the right choice, and He did. I have had perfect peace since then that I found God's perfect choice for me. And yet it was a very difficult struggle getting to that point, trying to find the will of God."
(I quoted this out of someone's response - I'm not sure whose)
Okay - this is a little off the subject ... but do you (any of you) believe God has one perfect person picked out for you? One perfect job, one perfect home...etc.? Because that doesn't sound like what I believe. I hold onto the premise that God's will for all of us is the same: to honor and glorify Him in all we do and say. Marry whoever you want, so long as they will help you do His will. Live wherever, work wherever, as long as it's the absolute best possible situation for you to bring honor and glory to God. It's so much more important who we are than what we do. I mean, do you believe that God had your significant other picked out before the world began? Do you believe that there is a PLAN for your life that you have to figure out and find? Maybe I should've started a whole different thread on that one! | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/15/2004 12:54 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by msekee
"I once read that "when you're ready, it will happen." I think there is much truth in that statement, though I know it pains us to have to defer instant gratification for a long-term goal of a fulfilling marriage. All during my 20s and into my early 30s, I was horribly tormented as a VERY normal male desperately NEEDING a wife, and yet trying very hard to keep my thought life pure. When I met and began dating the wonderful lady I'm now married to, I had a lot of trouble in my mind, trying to discern if she was God's will for me. One night during a revival service, I was in the altar area praying for God to show me the right choice, and He did. I have had perfect peace since then that I found God's perfect choice for me. And yet it was a very difficult struggle getting to that point, trying to find the will of God."
(I quoted this out of someone's response - I'm not sure whose)
Hi msekee,
That would be me. I don't necessarily believe in the idea that there is just ONE person picked out by God for you before the creation of the world. However, as an Open Theist who very much believes in God's infinite INTELLIGENCE and WISDOM, I think it is obvious that God certainly knew who and what and when to marry would be the best choice for me to make when I earnestly and diligently sought Him for an answer as I did. Do you believe God has a will for your life?
Of course, being free agents, people may in fact choose not to follow God's perfect will, and thus there is a "plan B, C, D...etc.," so to speak. However, the way you phrase it sounds like it COULD possibly lead to a nonchalant attitude about who you are to marry, not even asking God what He thinks; i.e., "Marry whoever you want." That would certainly not be a good view (if in fact it is your view).
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msekee
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 30
| Posted 4/15/2004 1:58 PM (GMT -6) | | John -
I believe I qualified my "marry whoever you want" with "as long as it is a person who can help you accomplish His will" that being to honor and glorify God. I guess with working with young people I hear this whole "finding God's will" thing all the time and I think they're missing the point. But asking for God's guidance? Of course! I do think He knows what would be best for me. In fact, I think that's exactly what we should do when faced with a decision. I think people spend too much time trying to figure out what the PLAN is instead of using their brains that God gave them and seeking His guidance. I just cringe when I hear things like "It's all part of His PLAN" and "Do you think that's in God's will for your life?" Because, as I stated, I believe God is much more interested in who we are than where or what we are doing. But that's just my humble opinion. I'm no theologian. | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/15/2004 2:26 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi msekee,
I certainly meant no offense by my comments. I think we are probably just differing on terminology. I of course agree with you that not everything that happens is God's will or "part of His plan," and I agree that God is most interested in developing our character, not necessarily where, when, who, etc., though to be sure our character can and is oftentimes formed through our interactions with others that God brings into our lives.
Good to have you on the board.
Sincerely,
John | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 4/15/2004 2:29 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by msekee
"I once read that "when you're ready, it will happen." I think there is much truth in that statement, though I know it pains us to have to defer instant gratification for a long-term goal of a fulfilling marriage. All during my 20s and into my early 30s, I was horribly tormented as a VERY normal male desperately NEEDING a wife, and yet trying very hard to keep my thought life pure. When I met and began dating the wonderful lady I'm now married to, I had a lot of trouble in my mind, trying to discern if she was God's will for me. One night during a revival service, I was in the altar area praying for God to show me the right choice, and He did. I have had perfect peace since then that I found God's perfect choice for me. And yet it was a very difficult struggle getting to that point, trying to find the will of God."
(I quoted this out of someone's response - I'm not sure whose)
Okay - this is a little off the subject ... but do you (any of you) believe God has one perfect person picked out for you? One perfect job, one perfect home...etc.? Because that doesn't sound like what I believe. I hold onto the premise that God's will for all of us is the same: to honor and glorify Him in all we do and say. Marry whoever you want, so long as they will help you do His will. Live wherever, work wherever, as long as it's the absolute best possible situation for you to bring honor and glory to God. It's so much more important who we are than what we do. I mean, do you believe that God had your significant other picked out before the world began? Do you believe that there is a PLAN for your life that you have to figure out and find? Maybe I should've started a whole different thread on that one!
Msekee,
I wholeheartedly concur with your thinking hear. There is not just one person for us. There isn't a blueprint to follow. I believe as we go about our life yielding to the Spirit, being transformed by the renewing of our minds - that we may cross paths with someone (who is hopefully doing the same) and that, in getting to know them, we may find someone that we want to share our life with.
Tigress...whatever you do...choose carefully. "The rest of your life" is a long time and "happily ever after" really only exists in fairy tales. I think most people underestimate what this means for their lives. I have friends who struggle ongoing because of the choice that they made and although they truly love God and love their husband/wife - that choice has cost them a great deal.
I agree with pursuing the Father with all that is in you - in becoming and you'll be surprised I think at the godly men that will find you attractive. I would pick godly any day over attractive....honestly!
Jo-Anne 
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/16/2004 4:40 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
My question to you GUYS...is what makes a woman attractive?
Joanne,
I am really really attracted to women who are confident. If I get talked back to by a woman, or if I am out of line and I get put in my place by I woman, then I notice. I am not argumentative but I like to know what women think. I think that once I hear a piece of her mind, then I am really on a mission to pick her brain. But there is a big difference between assertive women and controlling women. There is something really playful, like tiger cubs biting each other, about this kind of interaction. Women have alot to offer men and if men can get their minds off sex, they can learn and grow alot from this interaction.
I love when a woman insists, or waits, for me to get the door, or her coat or her chair. She doesn't make a big deal about it or even say anything but she is subtly making a point, that she wants to be treated this way. I totally respect that and it validates my masculinity.
I love it when women are friendly. This is rare. I don't know if women are threatened by men in general or what but too many times women are standoffish and they need like a stand up comic to get them to laugh or something. If a woman demands to be entertained, she comes off as a spoiled brat and high maintenance. This might be just what they call chemistry but I watch "Blind Date" and they are constantly feeding those stereotypes. I hate that. That's why I found my bride overseas. Not mail-order!
Wahoo | | Back to Top | | |
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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/16/2004 4:46 AM (GMT -6) | | More attractive features:
Not that a woman has to look like the cover of a magazine. Actually thos ewomen are to bony and sickly looking. But if a woman takes care of how she dresses and her hair and appearance, this is a real turn on. I'm not talking about symmetry or physique. There are things that every woman can do to make herself more attractive. And that effort lets a guy know that she cares about herself and she won't just let herself go. Obviously this can go to the extreme, but I think it very feminine to get dolled-up. The average girl is very hot when she is comfortable with what she's got.
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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/16/2004 4:55 AM (GMT -6) | | Here's what is NOT attractive,
One time, this girl liked me alot but I was not in the same place. But she told people and those people teased me about it. I think that this could have been a good friendship but I started running because I didn't want to be lassoed. NO WAY! For me, it is neutering. I want to pursue the woman and I want to win her response.
She liked me for years and I couldn't look at her like that any more.
Another girl, I was set up with on a blind date, was very attractive... Very athletic and fun. We got together to cook one time and we had a great evening. But then she started calling me everyday and I felt like I was being pursued and Ilost interest immediately. There is just something about the sexes.
Wahoo | | Back to Top | | |
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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/16/2004 4:58 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Tigress
Every woman wants her husband to find her just as beautiful as a super model.
You know Salma Hayek?
Well she doesn't hold a candle to my wife!!!
Wahoo | | Back to Top | | |
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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 4/16/2004 5:42 AM (GMT -6) | | All I can say here is that I was crying a lot last night about this and even now I'm crying because basically what John's been saying is that there's no hope for girls like me to ever be truly regarded as externally beautiful by men.
I could never ever be happy knowing that my husband didn't truly think that I'm as beautiful as supermodels; that he just settled for what he could get b/c he couldn't get a supermodel. John, you've been saying that it's not in men's experience to truly find girls like me beautiful and sexy in the least. So, what real hope do I have of having a great sex life with my future husband? What hope do any girls like me have? Unless what I've been saying is true - that the inner beauty can make it happen the same way external beauty does.
I mean really John - what are you gonna do when your wife starts showing her age - when she wrinkles up, her boobs sag, she gets stretch marks from pregnancies, her hair dries up and grays, her eyes aren't as bright and sparkly, she gains weight (which is inevitable no matter what a woman does to try to keep it down), she starts getting liver spots and other blemishes, her voice doesn't sound as pretty anymore, the skin on her neck and chin sags, etc. etc. etc. It will happen. What are you gonna do then? Obviously her inner beauty will have to be beautiful enough to attract you to her, b/c her external beauty sure won't anymore.
Tigress 
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 4/16/2004 6:44 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Tigress
All I can say here is that I was crying a lot last night about this and even now I'm crying because basically what John's been saying is that there's no hope for girls like me to ever be truly regarded as externally beautiful by men.
I could never ever be happy knowing that my husband didn't truly think that I'm as beautiful as supermodels; that he just settled for what he could get b/c he couldn't get a supermodel. John, you've been saying that it's not in men's experience to truly find girls like me beautiful and sexy in the least. So, what real hope do I have of having a great sex life with my future husband? What hope do any girls like me have? Unless what I've been saying is true - that the inner beauty can make it happen the same way external beauty does.
I mean really John - what are you gonna do when your wife starts showing her age - when she wrinkles up, her boobs sag, she gets stretch marks from pregnancies, her hair dries up and grays, her eyes aren't as bright and sparkly, she gains weight (which is inevitable no matter what a woman does to try to keep it down), she starts getting liver spots and other blemishes, her voice doesn't sound as pretty anymore, the skin on her neck and chin sags, etc. etc. etc. It will happen. What are you gonna do then? Obviously her inner beauty will have to be beautiful enough to attract you to her, b/c her external beauty sure won't anymore.
Tigress...please let me know if it's alright to just reply to that e-mail...I have a draft written but wasn't sure if I should send it as the return address is the board. Or send me your e-mail address. I'll read and respond to this in a bit. Out for my walk.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 4/16/2004 7:25 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
quote:
Originally posted by Tigress
All I can say here is that I was crying a lot last night about this and even now I'm crying because basically what John's been saying is that there's no hope for girls like me to ever be truly regarded as externally beautiful by men.
I could never ever be happy knowing that my husband didn't truly think that I'm as beautiful as supermodels; that he just settled for what he could get b/c he couldn't get a supermodel. John, you've been saying that it's not in men's experience to truly find girls like me beautiful and sexy in the least. So, what real hope do I have of having a great sex life with my future husband? What hope do any girls like me have? Unless what I've been saying is true - that the inner beauty can make it happen the same way external beauty does.
I mean really John - what are you gonna do when your wife starts showing her age - when she wrinkles up, her boobs sag, she gets stretch marks from pregnancies, her hair dries up and grays, her eyes aren't as bright and sparkly, she gains weight (which is inevitable no matter what a woman does to try to keep it down), she starts getting liver spots and other blemishes, her voice doesn't sound as pretty anymore, the skin on her neck and chin sags, etc. etc. etc. It will happen. What are you gonna do then? Obviously her inner beauty will have to be beautiful enough to attract you to her, b/c her external beauty sure won't anymore.
Tigress...please let me know if it's alright to just reply to that e-mail...I have a draft written but wasn't sure if I should send it as the return address is the board. Or send me your e-mail address. I'll read and respond to this in a bit. Out for my walk.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
Read up a few posts. I already told you that you can reply to my e-mail to you if you want. Also, I only have e-mail at work so after 5:00 tonight I won't be checking my e-mails until Monday morning. So, you might want to send me a message soon.
Tigress
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
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ataraxia
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 67
| Posted 4/16/2004 8:36 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi friends,
I’d like to insert a suggestion here. Let me first apologize for waiting till now to do so. Truth is I didn’t get around to checking this thread out until very recently. Besides, I've just discovered a bug (in my system?) that has hidden several pages of this and other threads from me. I show only 5 pages to this thread on the "Active Topics" page, but notice that there are more pages once I got into the thread. Hmmm.
It’s wonderful that Tigress feels comfortable enough to solicit counsel from the members of this board and as wonderful that there are members who have offered suggestions and pledged to pray for her. However, as legitimate as such interaction may be in other contexts, I’d like to suggest that such solicitation isn’t appropriate here. Some will remember that a while back at Doc’s request we shut down a similar thread that was aimed at providing personal counsel for people. As appropriate as that is in other contexts, we felt that this board should not become the sort of place where people came to get counseling for any problem they had. I’m sure there’s a good deal of personal learning and change that occurs in peoples’ lives as we challenge one another here, and we may offer personal counsel of an unofficial or even accidental nature in the course of dialogue. But what we don’t want to encourage on the board is a person’s soliciting counsel for specific life-issues that require a more personally involved and professional approach. It’s a hard line to draw, and I’m not likely to get it right all the time, but I think a good deal of this thread is the sort of solicitation that’s inappropriate for a public discussion forum.
Tigress, we love and appreciate you and pray God complete his beautiful healing work in your life. I’m sorry this discussion forum isn’t the sort of place where we can solicit counsel for the sort of issues you’ve brought up.
Having said that, it’s obvious that there are other topics of discussion here that don’t relate specifically to Tigress’ request for counseling and that ought to be continued. I hope I’ve expressed myself clearly.
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