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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > General Chat > Fortune Telling and an Open Future | Forum Quick Jump
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 11/4/2002 4:05 AM (GMT -6) |   | Help me. My daughters last week in their youth meeting had a visiting speaker. This guy told his testimony about having once been involved in the occult (withcraft, tarrot cards, fortune telling, reading tea grounds, etc.). He said he would read peoples' tea grounds (the grounds left at the bottom of a finished cup of tea) and tell them (under demonic influence of course) what would happen to them in two weeks, two months, or a year.
My daughters wanted me to ask you all: How can demons know the future but God not know the future?
Come on, help me out here!
Tom
"Kind of like donut holes--no one's ever eaten a donut hole because they don't exist." Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 11/4/2002 7:56 AM (GMT -6) | | I've thought about this in the past, when I was reading a lot on basic apologetics; reincarnation, particularly. Since Satan's been around a long, long time, he's very familiar with human patterns in several areas of life. He's also in reminder of the past and can use it all he wants to fool people. channeling, for instance severs that the purpose well.
Anyway . . .
Just because a demon predicts something doesn't mean it's going to come to pass. But if the Satan is smart, he's going to hit with something that gives him as much of a chance to score, maybe not even 100%, but enough to make the person think that the fortune telling worked.
The facts are a demon, or Satan, can't predict the future, in that they cannot 'see into the future', but they can sure make one think they can.
Rats, class again!
Starkman
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Empiress
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 363
| Posted 11/4/2002 9:09 AM (GMT -6) | | I totally agree with Starkman. Angels and demons have been around since the human race began and they have far superior knowledge about the present than humans; therefore it is not surprising that they can predict what will or might happen with a greater level of accuracy.
Here's a true story: As a teenager, one of my friends was involved in the occult and she asked a demon a question about an event in my own life regarding a decision I would make in the upcoming year. The demon gave her an answer but it turned out to be wrong. It may have been a good guess, but it was a wrong guess. I think this occurance is evidence for the plausibility of this theory.
I hope that helps with your daughter's question!
Peace,
~E
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 11/4/2002 10:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks! My girls will read this.
Of course, besides the demonic aspect, there's the crazy idea that your future would actually be indicated in the pattern of tea grounds. Incredible.
Tom
"Kind of like donut holes--no one's ever eaten a donut hole because they don't exist." Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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dust
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 16
| Posted 11/4/2002 12:23 PM (GMT -6) | | If you see a single man of disputable character talking to your daughter. What is your gut reaction? Lets say that this man has a reputation for womanizing and has gotten a few pregnant already. Does your anxiety level rise a little? Based on what this man has done and still does do you predict what he will try to do with your daughter by his very presence. Demons are somewhat like that man except I have learned most times they are much more predictable, hence some of their names: spirit of infirmity, spirit of death, the lying spirit, spirit of division. They get their names because it is what they do.
I personally am not an open theist because of this very reason. My position is that God does “know” the future. No he does not “know” it in the linear, every move is set in stone, predicted like clockwork, scientific sense of knowing. But that is never what “to know” meant until modernism. I’ll stop there since I don’t want to get into the entire debate behind this.
As seer or a witch or God or anyone else who can “see” or “sense” these spirits can usually predict fairly accurately what will be the outcome of having one of these “hang out” with a person for a while. The witch’s prediction would be just as accurate as yours would be with regard to the man who’s hanging with your daughter. The only difference is you see a man, the witch “sees” a spirit -- something not many people are aware of, which makes it rare and thus a novelty – at which everyone is spooked out by.
Yes a witch or fortune teller often draws upon the power of the demonic to assist him or her in “identifying” the spirits that are “with” the person to which they are predicting the future to. Tea grounds and terrot cards and having the client blow on sand are simply spirit-to-human translations tools. It assists the fortune teller in identifying who is there and what trajectory the combination present is on. I. E. Sally is sitting in front of the fortune teller and the teller “sees” that Sally has with her both the spirit of lying and distrust. The teller can predict that in the near future Sally will have an altercation with her closest friend and she can tell her all sorts of things about her past relationship patterns etc. The tea leaves and the cards are tools of interpretation. Notice how every fortune teller has the client touch the cards, drink the tea, focus their mind on a crystal ball – all involve some sort of physical contact with the “interpretation materials.” Every person all by themselves has an healthy chemical balance which exudes a particular “charge” or magnetism. Spirits too have a charge or magnetism. They leave their “imprints” in the tea leaves or on the cards and if the medium or spirit present with the seer is powerful enough to identify them they are revealed. Their “charge” is their “fingerprint.”
But please! no one here needs to be freaked out or beside themselves because as you know - - the Holy Spirit is with us if we welcome his presence and earnestly seek him and worship him with every breath. The Holy Spirit is also with us and gives us everything we need to identify and rebuke the spirits we encounter every day. After all, he was there when the worlds were created, how could he not identify a work of his own hand which has since fallen with Lucifer. Thus, a Christian under the power of the Holy Spirit is given the power to “see” these spirits and their trajectory. Sometimes God allows a discerning Christian to see many spirits gathered together in one place or consistent gathering. Sometimes God reveals their intent, sometimes it is obvious. Then sometimes God simply shows his servants a future event. The Bible is full of those and I don’t know entirely how that works.
I would differ from the other posters and say that demons and angels have been around for a long time NOT to observe human behavior necessarily BUT rather to push and shove human behavior in directions of their choosing. The Bible gives evidence to this. Fables and myths of ancient men and women do also. Spirits and witches are always trying to trick humans into behaving in ways that profit them somehow. To demons, we are mere pawns. Thank God for his salvation!!
Hope this helps. And for those that tend towards concern about why I know this stuff. Some research. Some reading. Some things God showed me or lead me to understand. And no I have never been a witch. I am a child of God, saved by grace, bought by his blood -- living in the joy of it and extending it to you.
Peace
Psalm 103:13,14
Just as a father has compassion on his children, So the Lord has compassion on those who fear Him.
For He Himself knows our frame; He is mindful that we are but dust.
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