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a_theist
"Thy will be done."
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 5/18/2003 7:01 AM (GMT -6) |   | Three things that come to mind that prove to me the REAL world/ matrix world dichotomy is false: - The Oracle, a computer simulated program, knows that Neo hasn't been sleeping well
- The Architect tells Neo that Zion has been destroyed on five seperate ocassions. This suggests that Zion was programmed by the Architect as well
- Neo can sense/stop sentinels--although the shock from doing so sent him into a semi-coma
These suggest to me that everything we have considered REAL thus far is still the Matrix.
Let me know if anyone else thinks this to be true.
Peace,
Paul
"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects."
~Charles Hartshorne
Edited by - A_Theist on 05/18/2003 12:03:35 PM
Edited by - A_Theist on 05/18/2003 12:09:00 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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a_theist
"Thy will be done."
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 5/18/2003 10:03 AM (GMT -6) | | I am going to watch the movie again tonight (birthday present from a friend), so I will look for anymore clues that suggest the Matrix is still the Matrix in the so-called REAL world.
"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects."
~Charles Hartshorne | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/19/2003 10:43 AM (GMT -6) | | Cornel West on the Movie The Matrix...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/18/movies/18AGGE.html
Reached by telephone in his office in Princeton, Dr. West said that he and the Wachowski brothers had come together in "acknowledging the full-fledged and complex humanity of black people, which is a relatively new idea in Hollywood given pervasive racist stereotypes." And, indeed, "The Matrix Reloaded" gives prominent roles and screen time to African-American stars like Laurence Fishburne and Jada Pinkett Smith. A more tantalizing connection seems to be Dr. West's notion of the jazz freedom fighter that
concludes his book "Race Matters." He writes: "I use the term `jazz' here not so much as a term for a musical art form as for a mode of being in the world, an improvisational mode of protean, fluid and flexible dispositions toward reality suspicious of `either/or viewpoints.' "
This seems to jibe with the direction that Neo, the character played by Mr. Reeves, is taking, as he discovers that the world of the Matrix is not operating by fixed rules but is something more permeable and uncertain. Dr. West also pointed out that "the second Matrix movie actually critiques the idea of the first. It's suspicious of salvation narratives. It's deeply anti-dogmatic. The critics haven't figured that out yet, but the scholars will get to it."
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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Laplace
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 138
| Posted 5/20/2003 6:13 AM (GMT -6) | | Skittles
"Balance in all things" - Dak'kon, Planescape Torment | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 5/20/2003 7:44 AM (GMT -6) | | Cornell West, the expert on movies, the expect on race, probably the expect on God. Because, you know, now that a movie has a lot of black people in its just gotta be good. What were all those critics who hated it thinking?
come together in "adknowledging the full-fledged and complex humanity of black people..." now that kind of statement is going to leave me laughing for a long, long time...
Edited by - honorman on 05/20/2003 12:47:25 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/20/2003 7:53 AM (GMT -6) | | Yeah, I'm a bit worried about Cornel West. A lot of movie portraits of African-Americans are pretty bad/one-sided.
But, I think he has been incorporated into the Matrix and is abusing his stardom to espouse his own opinions to the degradation of the Christian Church.
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/20/2003 8:28 AM (GMT -6) | | Getting back on topic,
Here is what a friend of mine wrote...
Looking back at TM, I can see now more hints that "the real world" may not be so real after all. The movie poses a dualistic metaphysics in which there is the real world and then there is the matrix, or the dream world. There are hints throughout TM, culminating in Neo's
defeat of the Sentinels in MR, that this dualism may in fact be an
illusion itself. E.g., death in the matrix means death in the real
world ... how can that be if the two are ontologically exclusive
worlds? Trinity resurrects Neo with her love in both the real and
digital worlds, and Neo pays her back (from within the matrix) in MR.
Also, Neo takes the red pill in the matrix, which oddly allows him to awaken in the real world. And finally, and maybe most important, the
Oracle seems to predict from within the Matrix events that will happen
in the real world. All of these should lead us to question whether
the matrix and the real world are as seperate as we were led to
believe in the first film.
His name is Matthew McCrady and can be contacted at mamc@loc.gov .
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
|
DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/20/2003 8:28 AM (GMT -6) | | Getting back on topic,
Here is what a friend of mine wrote...
Looking back at TM, I can see now more hints that "the real world" may not be so real after all. The movie poses a dualistic metaphysics in which there is the real world and then there is the matrix, or the dream world. There are hints throughout TM, culminating in Neo's
defeat of the Sentinels in MR, that this dualism may in fact be an
illusion itself. E.g., death in the matrix means death in the real
world ... how can that be if the two are ontologically exclusive
worlds? Trinity resurrects Neo with her love in both the real and
digital worlds, and Neo pays her back (from within the matrix) in MR.
Also, Neo takes the red pill in the matrix, which oddly allows him to awaken in the real world. And finally, and maybe most important, the
Oracle seems to predict from within the Matrix events that will happen
in the real world. All of these should lead us to question whether
the matrix and the real world are as seperate as we were led to
believe in the first film.
His name is Matthew McCrady and can be contacted at mamc@loc.gov .
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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