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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 3/9/2003 4:12 AM (GMT -6) |   | No matter what side you take the question of the U.S. going to war with Iraq, once those troops are over there, they should have your undivided support. Not that you should agree with all the reasons for their going, but I'm sure it must be hard on the soldiers and their families. Some fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters will not be coming home. I saw this on the "Today Show," please participate, I know I'm going to. Thanks.
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Brandon
"And don't say it's love that broke your heart when you trusted someone. Cause love's the victim, not the crime."--Jody McBrayer, Love Can Break Your Fall www.jodymcbrayer.com | | Back to Top | | |
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fyodor
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 3/9/2003 8:07 AM (GMT -6) | | With all due respect, as I think I understand what you're saying, it doesn't really seem all that logical to me to set aside my views on the war to support the participants and perpetrators of war, one of which I believe to be unjust...."Get the job done quick and come home!" "Kill before you get killed!" "Destroy that country's infrastructure so you can get home and see the kids" "Illicit more hatred from the Middle East so you can come home quick and defend us from the almost certain terrorist responses!"
I'll pray for everyone in this "potential" war, but my support is absolutely divided....
†††"To have a self, to be a self, is the greatest concession, an infinite concession, given to man, but it is also eternity's claim upon him." – S. Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 3/9/2003 8:15 AM (GMT -6) | | All I can say is, "shame on you Fyodor." If you cannot support those who fight for the country you live in, GETTHEHELLOUT!
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fyodor
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 3/9/2003 8:22 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for your concern Honorman, but i don't think it's my country they are fighting for.
†††"To have a self, to be a self, is the greatest concession, an infinite concession, given to man, but it is also eternity's claim upon him." – S. Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 3/9/2003 10:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Thank heavens even though the Father doesn't agree with everything we do and everything we believe that he wasn't "conflicted" in his love for us.
F: if you live in the US, you should find a new country because you certainly are not a true citizen of this one.
You know it doesn't matter what YOU THINK they are fighting for in order to support them. It matters that THEY think that they are fighting for their country.
I have no concern for a love that doesn't take into account the sacrifices that others make, so I have no concern for you, F, other than you find a new country to live in that is more in line with your "loving" beliefs...
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fyodor
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 3/9/2003 11:04 AM (GMT -6) | | Even though God loves us, I feel fairly confident that he doesn't support doing the wrong thing. I can't support something that I feel is horribly wrong.
I love this country and one of the things I love most is the ability to have "regime change" every four years. We get to stand up and speak out when we don't agree with what our leaders are doing. Thanks for the advice, but I think I'll just stay here and vote!
†††"To have a self, to be a self, is the greatest concession, an infinite concession, given to man, but it is also eternity's claim upon him." – S. Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 3/9/2003 3:48 PM (GMT -6) | | Once again (as with other posts I've had with you) you change the subject. This isn't about "regime change" (how vile of you to compare our president with Iraq's by using such terms...just another reason to hope you change citzenship. If you truly believe that our president is as bad, well, then there are no words to touch such ignorance!) This was about supporting people who would die for their country, something your "ideals" will not allow you to do.
If you cannot support those who are doing the fighting, regardless of whether or not you agree with them, then you do not love this country. Period. What you love is your "idealistic" beliefs, which you conveniently put before the flesh and blood of those who protect the freedom that allows you to cast them as the enemy. If you cannot support those in the armed forces who make you free, whether or not you agree with them, then you do not love this country. Ifsuch is the case, I still would suggest you find another one more in line with your beliefs and less in conflict with those of us who truly love this country and truly believe in what this country stands for AND are willing to take up the responsibility of that freedom. Try France, and most of Europe. I am sure they can fit you in. Those of us who truly love this country would appreciate you casting your vote there.
Edited by - honorman on 03/09/2003 8:57:31 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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fyodor
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 3/10/2003 2:51 AM (GMT -6) | | F: Just as I said above....I'll pray for everyone involved in this war, but I don't think it's necessary to give them my undivided support just because it has been decided to be wartime. I really don't appreciate the way you twist what I say and speak for me again and again, Honorman.
One of the terms the Bush Team has used over and over is "Dissent." They argue that because the Iraqi people are unable to have dissenting opinions from the views of their President, that we need a regime change....I guess we're not allowed to have dissent on this board, or we get classified as un-American, un-patriotic, un-christian, un-loving and idealistic (which, I guess is negative?).
BBBCanada had a great motive for this thread, I merely had a dissenting opinion based on the statement, "...once those troops are over there, they should have your undivided support." Well, I don't agree. And as I said above, I WILL PRAY FOR EVERYONE IN THIS "POTENTIAL" WAR, but my support is absolutely divided.
Quote Honorman: "You know it doesn't matter what YOU THINK they are fighting for in order to support them. It matters that THEY think that they are fighting for their country."
F: So, does your opinion about this change if it was another country? Let's say you lived in Germany in the 30's and 40's, would you have given the German military your undivided support because THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR THEIR COUNTRY." It's illogical and irrational to throw my hands up in support of something I completely disagree with, just because somebody else believes it's right...
†††"To have a self, to be a self, is the greatest concession, an infinite concession, given to man, but it is also eternity's claim upon him." – S. Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 3/10/2003 2:55 AM (GMT -6) | | And on THAT note....(confused icon if we had one).
Peace! From a Canadian who started this thread.
Brandon
"And don't say it's love that broke your heart when you trusted someone. Cause love's the victim, not the crime."--Jody McBrayer, Love Can Break Your Fall www.jodymcbrayer.com | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 3/10/2003 3:55 AM (GMT -6) | | OK. Noooow I see where I was not clear...as usual!
When I say, give the troops your undivided support, I do not mean that one should agree with everything about and give total unqualifying allegiance to the war or to the troops. You can still have your dissenting opinion. You can still be critical of the "war." By all means do so!
But I maintain that you can support the troops (and their families) through well wishes, prayers, letters, pictures, gifts, etc, to lift their spirits up, though you don't have to agree with the "war" itself.
Let me give you an example of what I mean. A few years ago my children's teachers (and all the grade school teachers of Ontario) went on strike in October. The total amount of strike time was two weeks. I disagreed with the strike. It was the teachers union aruging with the Ontario conservative government. One of the reasons I had a problem with the strike was because at the time I thought the teachers were making a political statement and using our children to do it. The children had no comprehension about why they were out of school, but there were green ribbons on the fence of the school yard asked by some teachers (and somewhat on the perogative of the students themselves) to be put up. Some teachers even rallied the children to hold signs!
Again, children should not be caught in the middle of "adult problems." They simply do not understand the issues nor the ramifications of involvement.
But even though I disagree with the teachers, I thought it was important to show Christian charity. So I high-tailed my little behind and my children and their friend's behinds (the one's that have fax paper hanging out of them?  )down to the local donut shop (Tim Horton's) and got a few gallon's of hotwater. I also went to the store and bought some of that REALLY SALTY soup, you know, with the broth and noodles? I then booked it out into the county where the teachers were picketing at the school.
Out in the county folks. No cars around to honk and support you. Silence, but for the odd crow here and there. Cold, grey and nasty. Shivering.
Well we brought the soup to the teachers and they were so happy to have it. They felt like all their efforts were in vain being out in the middle of no where with no one to notice. But alas, pops came to the rescue and cheered them up (pip pip). Were my intentions politically motivated? No. Not at all. Shoot, I didn't even talk about the issues with them. All that matter was that they were cold, lonely and in need of some daddy-o's nice hot REALLY SALTY soup. 
I read a number of years ago in Christianity Today magazine where Chuck Colson reported that some pro-lifers gave donuts and coffee and kool-aid to pro-choice protestors. That's cool. At some point, what matters is not politics. It's not agendas. It is not campaigns. It's not "us" against "them." What matters is the immediate. What's the present need?
"But I say to you who listen: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you"--Luke 6:27
Brandon
"And don't say it's love that broke your heart when you trusted someone. Cause love's the victim, not the crime."--Jody McBrayer, Love Can Break Your Fall www.jodymcbrayer.com | | Back to Top | | |
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fyodor
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 3/10/2003 4:03 AM (GMT -6) | | Amen.
That's the idea I agree with that get's my support!
thanks, BBBCanada.
†††"To have a self, to be a self, is the greatest concession, an infinite concession, given to man, but it is also eternity's claim upon him." – S. Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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Electra
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611
| Posted 3/10/2003 4:13 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks Brandon. If there is a virtual equivalent to REALLY SALTY soup, I think you’ve dished out a few bowls of it on this board. Electra
Love in action is a harsh and dreadful thing. ~ Dostoevsky | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 3/10/2003 5:59 AM (GMT -6) | | Your welcome fyodor.
Electra? Ya think???
Brandon
"And don't say it's love that broke your heart when you trusted someone. Cause love's the victim, not the crime."--Jody McBrayer, Love Can Break Your Fall www.jodymcbrayer.com | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 3/10/2003 11:32 AM (GMT -6) | | F: better get use to the harsh words, if you are going to continue your career as a dissent. From my experience, in this arena, people tend to call it as they see it. If you don't like it, there are four things you can do, move, change, get use to it, or shut up. Your choice.
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Springs
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
| Posted 3/10/2003 12:16 PM (GMT -6) | | Or reply gracfully?
Thy love did read by rote and could not spell. - Friar Laurence. - Shakespeare | | Back to Top | | |
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