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About the orgy scene, all I can say is, did they cut it out, because there certainly wasn't one in the movie I saw.

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The so-called "orgy scene" is what you call people blowing things out of proportion.



Peace,
Paul

"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects."
~Charles Hartshorne

Edited by - A_Theist on 05/18/2003 12:12:08 PM

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I drew an immediate line of similarity between Morpheus' unshakable faith in his belief and the "true believers" in many religions, including Christianity. I thought about the first Matrix.

and

By the time of the second movie, Morpheus "knows" that victory is certain. He kept just calling it a matter of time. His faith in Neo and the fulfilment of the prophecy is resolute...hence his moving speech at Zion and his mini-soliloquy to his strike force right before they started their main operation. And even though he gave lip-service to the possibility that he was wrong, he actually gave no real thought to it. He was just a true believer....he was bound for a fall.

and

Now, do I have a problem with believing? Heck, no. I think that a person can rationally hold belief (via principle of belief conservation). Nor do I have a problem with a person fully dedicating themselves to their belief...LIVING it. What I do have a problem with is the single-minded, blind adherence to their belief where things that should be held as TENTATIVE are held as CERTAINTIES. You'd think that some of these people would be able to look at ALL the evidences a tad more objectively. You'd think that some of these people could have a LITTLE more ambiguity in their theologies. But nope. They know that they know that they know. Beliefs are CERTAINTIES. And what happens when things get hectic...when other facts seem to contradict their current beliefs? Rationalization. Postdiction. Denial. Possibly depair-filled revolt. I've personally seen the last one happen more than once.

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This is your trademark Meph Man. Vintage “D!” Should we call it healthy skepticism? Hee, hee, hee... Here’s my deal with what yer say’n. Can we hold to two opposite “truths” at the same time? It seems to me that some of these people of whom you speak about, WHILE THEY MAY THINK THEY’RE RIGHT, are REALLY NOT. For example, some of them know that they know that they know that Hal Lindsey’s eschatology is GOSPEL TRUTH. But you and I know differently. So it would seem to me not to include some groups of people, because their whole system, their “constructions” really don’t correspond with reality. On the other side of the coin, we have some legitimate “opposite truths” going on at the same time (if that is possible). Some REAL disagreement. I think the only thing we can do is what Morpheus did, and that is believe.

This brings up what A_Theist said on the “What Is Real?” thread (though, apparently, he seems to contradict himself). He said,

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Three things that come to mind that prove to me the REAL world/ matrix world dichotomy is false:….

Neo can sense/stop sentinels--although the shock from doing so sent him into a semi-coma

These suggest to me that everything we have considered REAL thus far is still the Matrix.

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In the movie, The Matrix “occurs” when Neo gets “hooked up” to the computer. When he’s UNPLUGGED, he is back “in reality.” And it was in this “unplugged” state that Neo was able to fend off the sentinels. That is, while he was no longer in the Matrix, but in the “real” world, he was able to “kill” the machines, thereby showing us that he REALLY IS THE ONE, hence Morpheus’ hopes are really NOT dashed.

Now I said all of that to bring it back to this your point that you are making concerning beliefs and certainties. I would agree that the modern enterprise of knowledge has been misdirected (on the whole, though some of it has been healthy i.e. we have been freed from a host of superstitions that plagued pre-moderns, and we have been able to construct a modern society which does offer benefits to it’s citizens. Plus, we have demonstrated that the Christian faith is not necessarily unreasonable).

The problem as I see it, is when modernity has made the claim that WE CAN KNOW EVERY DIMENSION OF REALITY. We are more than our cognitive selves. Therefore, what this means is that we cannot collapse all truth into rational categories but that we must make room for “mystery.” Mystery does not entail IRRATIONALITY, but simply the acknowledgement that reality transcends rationality or is “trans-rational” or “supra-rational” as Miss. E states. I see this as being as “contextualistic” as Alan and Greg perceive themselves to be (though Greg sees a false dichotomy between modernism and post-modernism on this basis). That is, our experience and interpretive concepts are reciprocally related. Our concepts facilitate our understanding of the experiences we have and our experience shapes our interpretive concepts we employ to speak of our lives (Jesus is the truth we come to “know”).

Ultimately, I cannot abandon a “unifying center to reality” as in postmodernism. It is here that I liken the scene of Neo sensing and fending off the sentinels to that which separates me from post-moderns—the rejection of THE meta-narrative to reality as a whole.


Brandon
"Mommy, I know now that the terms, 'I'll knock yo' teeth down yo' throat!' meant you'd love me in the special way you do everyday of my life."--Darwin Hobbs
www.darwinhobbs.com

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And what's up with the Freudian sex/death theme? Every time Neo and Trinity steal a moment to themselves, Neo has a vision of death.

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A premonition of marriage?

<rim shot>




Even though the skies are blue, don't they let the sunshine through?

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Blood is only shown three times in the movie--1) When Neo blocks a battle axe with his hand (he sheds a few drops of blood and M--- [can't remember that bad dude's name] comments, "See, he's only human"). 2) When a battleship from Zion is attacked by sentinals and blood is splashed on the computer screen. 3) When Trinity is shot in the heart. That is the bloodiest scene.

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The Architect places before Neo, the seventh "One," the choice to either do what he predicts he'll do ("we all know what you're going to do, don't we. Already you can feel the flush of emotion overwhelming your reasoning...yada yada) or going through the other door, in the hope against all hope that he can save Trinity (and humanity).

In choosing the rebel door, Neo asserts the reality of his freedom and the unquenchability of hope, thus refuting the Architect.

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