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JeanCaudill
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7

Posted 5/24/2003 5:56 PM (GMT -6)

Hi yunz, that's Pittsburghese for y'all. I'm not from Pittsburgh, but out here to attend seminary. Thought I take a moment and introduce myself. I just signed on the forum tonight.

I just finished my second year on the four year plan of the MDiv program at Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry in Ambridge, PA, the only Evangelical Episcopal Seminary in the USA. I have Summer Greek ahead of me in a couple of weeks so if you don't see much of me in the weeks to come that's why.

I found the Christus Victor Ministries website while researching online info regarding women in ordained ministry. I was very happy to discover the discussions and articles on Open View Theism. This is a new topic for me but one that intrigues me. I have not found the Calvinism of my youth all that satisfying and had not really found anything compelling to embrace elsewhere, but this OVT stuff is very persuasive. I will be taking Evangelical Theology in the fall and thought this would be a good way to familiarize myself with at least this viewpoint. It will take me some time to get to known everyone, but in the meantime, "Hi".

I'll be returning to central California once I graduate from seminary to be ordained. My background is varied: saved and baptized at 16 in 1971 as a Southern Baptist, then spent 7 years at John MacArthur's Church, Grace Community, in southern CA. In college I majored in music, and began to do music ministry conducting church choirs. I spend some time in a Bible (Mennonite Brethren) Church that was really more of a non-denominational church with Talbot Seminary grads as pastors. I worked two years in a Presbyterian Church where I struggled to own Calvinism but never quite "got it". About seven years ago, I picked up a Book of Common Prayer from an Episcopal Church and read it cover to cover which convinced me to become an Anglican (Like John Stott, JI Packer, and CS Lewis. All along I've been a closet charismatic.

I've felt called to ordained ministry since I was first saved but told that women cannot be pastors but we could be missionaries and musicians. I didn't get the missionary part--if it was not biblical to teach men in our own culture, why would it be to okay to preach to men in Africa? I did not like any of the implications to that one and did not stay Southern Baptist for long. I did get the same reaction 7 years later at MacArthur's Church, and at the Bible Church just 10 years ago. Since becoming an Episcopalian, wouldn't you know that I am in one of two or three dioceses in the Episcopal Church that does not ordain women to the priesthood. Go figure. But it is a solid theologically orthodox diocese which is not something one could say about most of the Episcopal Church.

Anyway, I've said way too much already and can't wait to really did into the archives and when I am ready to jump in the discussions I will do that too.

In Christ,
Jean

BJS
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 587

Posted 5/24/2003 6:09 PM (GMT -6)

Jean, thanks so much for joining us! I look forward to your input!

Brett

"Siste viator et memento mori."

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 5/24/2003 7:07 PM (GMT -6)

Hi back atcha Jean,
Congrats on two years of Sem.! I did not know there was only one Evangelical Episcopal Seminary in the USA.

Good luck with the Greek.

-S

"It was fine." - Lee Marvin in Cat Balou.

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 5/25/2003 12:55 AM (GMT -6)

Welcome, JeanCaudill,

Great to have you on board. I'm an Open Theist but I love John MacAurther--listen to him whenever I can. Great teacher.

Again, nice to have you here!

Starkman

Am I right? I say, am I right?
Charlie Brown

JCsites.com
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 169

Posted 5/25/2003 9:18 AM (GMT -6)

Welcome Jean!!!

From how you described yourself, I think you'll fit in perfect. I trust that you got some great research from the Board regarding Women's issues in Christianity? I know we've had some awesome threads on various women's issues.

I personally find a member named Electra to be quite informative. I've learned a ton from her posts. I must humbly admin that she reads much much more than, I and no doubt she's smarter

Anyway, try reading some of Electra's posts.

I would consider myself a "closet charasmatic", or "empowered evangelical". Just pick a label. I don't emphasise the gifts, but believe they are real and am learning more and more about them. I suspect there are others on this board that are somewhere in that neighborhood, but don't quote me on that.

As for the open view, I want to encourage you to ask your tough questions. The first couple years of this online community, 99% of our members were proponents of the open view. So while the community grew in leaps and bounds, we were still preachin' to the choir.

Lately it seems there are more and more people joining our community that do not subscribe to OV, but want to engage in healthy debate or even ask honest, tough questions.

That's a big reason this community exists. To be real, genuine, open and honest about the reality of Jesus. To help us all take theology and integrate it into our real, day to day life. Not just for study and debate.

So I hope you enjoy the discussion and will jump in with both feet. I'm sure you'll bring some dynamic to the community that we lack. Can't wait to see what that is.

Blessings,
JC Sites Guy

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 5/25/2003 9:55 AM (GMT -6)

I hope you can join us in the so called "Let's Solve the Problem of Evil" forum, where we deal with concrete manifestations of evil and what can and cannot be done about them and questions about the relations between Church and State and what-not.

If that sort of stuff interests you.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

JeanCaudill
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7

Posted 5/25/2003 2:00 PM (GMT -6)

quote:

So I hope you enjoy the discussion and will jump in with both feet. I'm sure you'll bring some dynamic to the community that we lack. Can't wait to see what that is.

Thanx JC sites guy [:-)]
I'm sure it will be as much an unknown to me as to you, that is whatever it is I will bring to the table. LOL

I was never very good at philosophy but love theology and this is fun reading everyone's posts trying to understand and make sense of it all. I'm so right brained that all this logic stuff is a real challenge for me.

I just finished two Old Testament classes (Pentateuch and Psalms & Wisdom) taught by a Covenantal Presbyterian professor. Excellent courses both of them, but I need a break from the words "election" and "sovereignty". Although I most definately respect the prof it started to feel very artificial after a while. I think I'm probably some kind of Arminian in a sea of Calvinists. Although I do hear many of the professors use the term "the tension between the already and the not yet." That sounds kind of OV right?

I suspect lots of my fellow seminarians may also be of the Arminian persuasion although I think many of the profs are Calvinists (though not many TULIP types). I think this will be a great place to explore the arguments on both sides and see how it all fits in the big picture before I take Evangelical Theology in the Fall. I know that reading "The Institutes" is on the syllabus but won't know what else is on the reading list until the end of the summer, unless perhaps I can persuade the professor to get it out early.

I really love the threads that I've read so far. I started with the OV stuff and related threads. I especially appreciate the rapport you all have and the way opposing positions are treated intelligently and with respect. You don't always see that kind of thing online and it's tough for real learning to take place if there is no discussion and only arguing. So far it seems like I have landed in a very cool place.

Thanks for the warm welcome,
In Christ,
Jean

JeanCaudill
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7

Posted 5/25/2003 2:02 PM (GMT -6)

quote:

I hope you can join us in the so called "Let's Solve the Problem of Evil" forum, where we deal with concrete manifestations of evil and what can and cannot be done about them and questions about the relations between Church and State and what-not.

If that sort of stuff interests you.

dlw

ooooh does it ever!!!
so many cool things to discuss and so little time
in pace Christi,
Jean

JeanCaudill
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7

Posted 5/25/2003 6:37 PM (GMT -6)

quote:

Selah:
The best thing is that it was easy to write my papers ... I came up with a standard conclusion paragraph that went something like "We must never forget the sovereignty and glory of God in this story or that situation or that passage..." I bet I would have gotten an "A" if I didn't shove all those love verses in too! I'm such a rebel. B+ for me!!

LOL, I had to write two sermons for each class plus a final in each class. I spent a considerable amount of time researching exactly what covenant theologians believe and sprinkled the appropriate buzz words strategically throughout although I had to ask myself if I was being disingenuous or pragmatic. They say that C=MDiv but it doesn't equal scholarships does it? LOL. I shot for the A but the jury is still out, missed points on second sermons for not identifying the pastoral problem with each text. So I am somewhere between A- and B+ in Old Testament. Great professor though. Really does a great job of connecting the OT with Christ. I learned alot from him, especially about how one's theology must be consistent throughout or it all falls apart. I expect to learn a lot on this list as well.

In Christ's love,
Jean

Now praying that the professor is not lurking on this list somewhere. That's the problem with using one's real name huh?

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 5/26/2003 4:37 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

Now praying that the professor is not lurking on this list somewhere. That's the problem with using one's real name huh?

Yes. that's the problem. Funny, I edited mine twice (even with the fake name) just in case!!

Actually, I should say I don't think he would mind. This professor (similar to the description of yours)is a brilliant and kind man who has already put up with the worst of my objections. To him, I'm sure this is nothing

love
selah

Then He showed me the river whose waters give life, sparkling like crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev. 22:1

Edited by - Selah on 05/26/2003 10:23:26 AM

BBBCanada
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763

Posted 5/26/2003 5:50 AM (GMT -6)

Jean,

Nice having ya aboard. I think it is sad that you've been told that you cannot be a pastor simply because of your gender. I've heard the theological reasons (Jesus was a man and we are saved partly on the basis of his maleness, yada, yada, yada...), but I just don't buy it. Joel 2:28 says your sons AND DAUGHTERS will prophecy, yet the councils of men have seen to it that only half of the church will do so. I'm sure this must grieve the Spirit.

There are women on these boards that I've noticed that have a brain despite "the curse of being born a woman." Ugh...

I'm sure they are "set" (the Greek means "ordained") in the body of Christ. So I encourage you to keep up the good fight. WE NEED YOU!!!

I noticed you mentioned that your prof's speak of the already/not yet tension. Several scholars speak of this. If my Spider senses are correct, I believe that theologian George Eldon Ladd coined the term, if not heavily used it. This is not a OV term. It is used mostly in discussions of eschatology. That is, when speaking of Christ's first coming and the "inbreaking of the Kingdom" we speak in the sense that this has "already" occurred. But it has not occurred in it's FULLNESS (the consumation of the ages), hence, we speak of "not yet." So, in what ways has the Kingdom already appeared? Well we can see this manifestation of the Kingdom with Christ overcoming the works of the devil. We see, the sick healed, the deaf hear, the lame walk, and the dead raised. We see giftings such as in the Corithian church (any time you have a discussion on Corithians, the already/not yet dichotomy is bound to be raised) to be a part of the "already/not yet" scenario.

All in all, you may want to check out, "How To Read The Bible For All It's Worth" by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310384915/qid=1053963718/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-9417768-8451352

and

G.E. Ladd's "A Theology of the New Testament."

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802806805/qid=1053963901/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-9417768-8451352?v=glance&s=books

Brandon
Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.--Isa 49:15-16

Edited by - BBBCanada on 05/26/2003 10:53:45 AM

trosie
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550

Posted 5/26/2003 4:30 PM (GMT -6)

Welcome, Jean! I must tell you that grasping the logic behind the open view was life changing and transforming for me. A book that really helped me personally to understand the open view was by Greg Boyd called God of the Possible I know there are many others but this was the one that had an impact on me.

I look forward to reading what you have to share on the board!

Blessings,
trosie

JeanCaudill
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7

Posted 5/27/2003 6:05 PM (GMT -6)

quote:

...
All in all, you may want to check out, "How To Read The Bible For All It's Worth" by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart...

Great book, it's required reading at my seminary for new students, at least it used to be.

Thanks for your encouragement and your comments.
I guess my next questions should go on the OV board. But here they are if someone can recommend where I should post these questions.

Is there a connection direct or indirect between OV and Reconstructionism/Dominion theology?
and
unrelated: What is the impact on atonement theology given the OV paradigm? Would an OV theologian say that the crucifixion was plan B and that God intended Jesus to set up his kingdom, or would the atonement stand pretty much as it is in old style theology? Plan A

If these questions are already addressed in the archives, where might I find them.
Thanks,
Jean

PS someone please advise me where to post the above questions, thanks

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 5/27/2003 10:47 PM (GMT -6)

I'm always delighted to hear of another woman breaking out of the first century patriarchal bondage and moving into the ministry she was created to serve in. I'm even more delighted when she joins us on the board.

WELCOME ABOARD JEAN!

Doc

"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

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