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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 6/6/2003 6:09 AM (GMT -6) |   | Please check out and possibly answer my question in the "Questions About Christianity" section. It's under the title "Sex in the afterlife?"
Thanks.
Tigress
The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, and He delivers them.
-Psalm 34:7 | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 6/6/2003 6:14 AM (GMT -6) | | Been there, done that.
"I don't feel a real urgent burden to get all the details of my ethics worked out until I've got the profundity of my love worked out in a Christ-like way." --doc
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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 6/6/2003 7:44 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Adiaphora, would it be too much to ask that tomorrow or something, Tigress postings requesting responses to her original posting be taken down?
dlw
Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me! 
Tigress
The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, and He delivers them.
-Psalm 34:7 | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/6/2003 7:51 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/6/2003 7:52 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Terry_Baxter
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 187
| Posted 6/6/2003 10:38 AM (GMT -6) | | Instead, I think we should have a forum where we place requests for people to look at our threads in other forums. This is really the proper place for those threads.
We could call it "How to Solve the Problem of People Not Looking at My Other Thread"
/sarcasm off
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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 6/6/2003 11:07 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Instead, I think we should have a forum where we place requests for people to look at our threads in other forums. This is really the proper place for those threads.
We could call it "How to Solve the Problem of People Not Looking at My Other Thread"
/sarcasm off
LOL!!!!!
Tigress
The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, and He delivers them.
-Psalm 34:7 | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 6/6/2003 11:20 AM (GMT -6) | | Or how about asking even more pressing questions like: Will there be Condoms in Heaven? Did Jesus get his feet wet when he walked on the water? Was Samson really Strong? How many Angels can dance on the head of a needle?
Or here's my favorite:Is this Judgement or Discernment?
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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Terry_Baxter
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 187
| Posted 6/7/2003 9:00 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Or here's my favorite:Is this Judgement or Discernment?
Both, but some people don't have ears to hear it.
Regards,
Terry
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 7/25/2003 8:33 AM (GMT -6) | | I wanted to ask the CVM community to please consider checking out and participating on the Abortion link in the Problem of Evil forum.
thankyou,
dlw
I-uh-scream-uh,
You-uh-scream-uh,
We-all-uh-sceam-uh for
Ice-uh-cream-uh!!!
Roberto Bernigni in
Down by Law.
ahehmAmericanzituhsen! This,varrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry! Varrrrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry!
Roberto Benigni in
Johnny Stecchenino. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/25/2003 10:33 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
DLW
I wanted to ask the CVM community to please consider checking out and participating on the Abortion link in the Problem of Evil forum.
thankyou,
dlw
I-uh-scream-uh,
You-uh-scream-uh,
We-all-uh-sceam-uh for
Ice-uh-cream-uh!!!
Roberto Bernigni in
Down by Law.
ahehmAmericanzituhsen! This,varrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry! Varrrrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry!
Roberto Benigni in
Johnny Stecchenino.
He wants other people to discuss with him.
http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1991&whichpage=5
quote:
[QUOTE]DLW: Now, I was born with a hole in my heart. It likely may have been part of God's greater plan for me to be born with such a defect. However, given the current prevalence of abortions in our world, it seems that one could say that such abortions apparently are also part of God's will.
This belongs on the other threads. Someone's going to respond to this one!!!
PoW: "So, you are saying that God is the cause of sin. (YOU SUPER-CALVINIST YOU!!!) You are saying that since people kill millions of human persons it must be OK with God now. That makes war good. Infantacide in Baal worship God-ordained... [quote] | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 7/25/2003 11:02 AM (GMT -6) | | Well Pow, the shoddyness of my response could likely be due to different possible understandings of the Will of God.
However, my point was to emphasize the sin-fullness of many circumstances.
So I do allow for contextualities but I do not deny that sin is sin and deny the need for atonement and morning of the tragedy of abortion.
dlw
I-uh-scream-uh,
You-uh-scream-uh,
We-all-uh-sceam-uh for
Ice-uh-cream-uh!!!
Roberto Bernigni in
Down by Law.
ahehmAmericanzituhsen! This,varrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry! Varrrrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry!
Roberto Benigni in
Johnny Stecchenino. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/25/2003 12:54 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Well Pow, the shoddyness of my response could likely be due to different possible understandings of the Will of God.
However, my point was to emphasize the sin-fullness of many circumstances.
So I do allow for contextualities but I do not deny that sin is sin and deny the need for atonement and morning of the tragedy of abortion.
dlw
DLW: Well Pow, the shoddyness of my response could likely be due to different possible understandings of the Will of God.
THAT'S WHAT INTERACTING WITH IT BY OTHER PEOPLE ON THE OTHER THREADS I POSTED THIS TOO WILL BE INTERESTING TO THOSE PEOPLE FOR.
YOU WANTED MORE INTERACTIVITY!!!! | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/25/2003 2:15 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
dlw
However, my point was to emphasize the sin-fullness of many circumstances.
So I do allow for contextualities but I do not deny that sin is sin and deny the need for atonement and morning of the tragedy of abortion.
Then, bro, you need to find a way to develop that. | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 7/25/2003 4:04 PM (GMT -6) | | If you reread my first posts I do develop it.
Course I appreciate all constructive suggestions and I think I need to go back and reread what you wrote for that purpose...
dlw
I-uh-scream-uh,
You-uh-scream-uh,
We-all-uh-sceam-uh for
Ice-uh-cream-uh!!!
Roberto Bernigni in
Down by Law.
ahehmAmericanzituhsen! This,varrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry! Varrrrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry!
Roberto Benigni in
Johnny Stecchenino. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/26/2003 4:50 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
PoW: Then, bro, you need to find a way to develop that.
DLW: If you reread my first posts I do develop it.
Course I appreciate all constructive suggestions and I think I need to go back and reread what you wrote for that purpose...
The trick is to find some way of presenting the part that is most important to you without polorizing everything else. You failed at that when you didn't allow room for what I was saying.
On the "Gay man" thread on the very first page I posted about mercy and understanding. Then for the next ten pages or so Icon railed about how they were entirely lacking in anyone that did not hold his view.
Abortion and Homosexuality are such topics that the poster is ENTIRELY self-responsible for how others respond to his ideas.
An Orthodox Presbyterian pastor lost his position and membership in their denomination recently for what probably was good and mercifyl theology, BUT which was presented badly.
This is the nature of the real world.
You have to find a way to do better. And you can't decide what can be expected from the other person.
(It got you two strikes; but neither involved a job, or family reputation, or a marriage.)
Edited by - PotOnWheel on 07/26/2003 09:51:01 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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Semeia
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 522
| Posted 7/26/2003 7:24 AM (GMT -6) | | PoW said:
Abortion and Homosexuality are such topics that the poster is ENTIRELY self-responsible for how others respond to his ideas.
Semeia:
Fascinating. So if someone responds to the poster's ideas by murdering him, the poster is ENTIRELY self-responsible for that response to his ideas?
So if someone responds to the poster's ideas by attacking him, the poster is ENTIRELY self-responsible for that response to his ideas?
So if someone responds to the poster's ideas by slandering him, the poster is ENTIRELY self-responsible for that response to his ideas?
So if someone responds to the poster's ideas by butchering and misconstruing those ideas, the poster is ENTIRELY self-responsible for that response to his ideas?
How convenient for the responder, to have the freedom to murder, attack, slander, and misconstrue - and yet bear none of the responsibility for his actions, because after all, he was driven to it by the force of the dangerous ideas.
No wonder you place the blame for Servetus' brutal murder at his own feet. How can you blame Calvin for responding as he did? I mean, wouldn't anyone do the same, when confronted with dangerous ideas?
Pow said:
On the "Gay man" thread on the very first page I posted about mercy and understanding. Then for the next ten pages or so Icon railed about how they were entirely lacking in anyone that did not hold his view.
Semeia:
There is a huge difference between talking about mercy and understanding and actually being merciful and understanding. Part of the debate has been about whether or not a particular response toward homosexuals actually is merciful, and clearly this is something about which we disagree. Iconoclast and I do not see requiring celibacy from gays and the disallowal of gay marriage to be merciful or understanding. So to simply state that mercy and understanding are important is not the end of the conversation. Nor was Iconoclast in any way maligning the opposing view by claiming that a particular response is not merciful, any more than it would be maligning Calvin to say that burning Servetus at the stake was not a merciful response. It is perfectly legitimate to disagree about such things.
So, PoW, if we follow your logic through, since this is a RESPONSE to the ideas in YOUR post, that makes YOU entirely "self-responsible" for it!
How'd you do?
Semeia
"The opposite of sin is not virtue, but faith."--Soren Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/26/2003 8:57 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
PoW said:
Abortion and Homosexuality are such topics that the poster is ENTIRELY self-responsible for how others respond to his ideas.
An example was given in the post at the end of page one of this thread. It was about a backlash that a pastor got, which could have been avoided. A cause was just, but the manner it was pursued was poorly handled.
The point, then, is that the one poorly handling is "responsible." If someone shoing a horse goes about it poorly they can be "responsible" for getting kicked. Even if the horse is also mean, and therefore also responsible. That's what I am saying.
quote:
Pow said: On the "Gay man" thread on the very first page I posted about mercy and understanding. Then for the next ten pages or so Icon railed about how they were entirely lacking in anyone that did not hold his view.
Semeia: There is a huge difference between talking about mercy and understanding and actually being merciful and understanding. Part of the debate has been about whether or not a particular response toward homosexuals actually is merciful, and clearly this is something about which we disagree. Iconoclast and I do not see requiring celibacy from gays and the disallowal of gay marriage to be merciful or understanding.
I don't hold that saying that a sin is not a sin is mercy. Perhaps we disagree on that. BTW, DLW called it a sin too.
To DLW: What I see in those two threads is a "PC" antagonism. "PC" is antagonistic to the point of lumping everything together into one pile. Of course not everything in either of those threads did such together-lumping. May no one suggest I'm saying that it was. But I am saying that such "PC-lumping" was present in both threads. I witnessed it twice in a week-long College conference (Great Lakes College Association) about twelve years ago. Just the suggestion that one participant at the conference might recognize the ethnicity of another participant resulted in self-righteous austricism of that person my a major portion of the conference for the rest of the afternoon. (The participant had merely said that they were much more prone to identify other factors, such as experience, instead-of ethnicity -- confreence leaders later apologized to that individual.) Another incident was where a Pshych professor refused to recongnize that an ethics discussion about abortion was about the *differences* between the three terms. He could only repeatedly call all unborn "undifferentiated tissue", even when specifics were hightlighted and brought to his attention. He was manic in his reaction.
That's what I'm talking about.
Semeia, you can decide what kind of participant you wish to be. | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 7/26/2003 9:42 AM (GMT -6) | | If I can toss in my understanding. I think Pow, having immersed himself in EOrthodox thinking, has adopted their emphasis on continuity. As such, for a theologian to propose some moderation on an old idea, it would be their responsibility to go back and understand what has been said in the past and then propose their idea with as much continuity with the past as possible so that it is like an extension or completion of past thought. This both enriches current thinking and fosters unity.
Now, my general take on the abortion issue has been very open about its dissension from my received viewpoint, that human life begins at conception. It also has been critical of general pro-lifer-activists political strategies. As such, by virtue of the openness of my dissent, I invited conflict/argument with my fellow Christians. This is most apparent with my openness regarding my belief in the importance of fallibism. Although, I qualify this strongly with an affirmation of the need for ecclesiastical governance over our lives and the importance of tradition(That is why Pow and I tear into each other so much, we otherwise tend to have a fair amount in common .).
quote:
Semeia: There is a huge difference between talking about mercy and understanding and actually being merciful and understanding. Part of the debate has been about whether or not a particular response toward homosexuals actually is merciful, and clearly this is something about which we disagree. Iconoclast and I do not see requiring celibacy from gays and the disallowal of gay marriage to be merciful or understanding.
Having said all that, I do agree with much of what Semeia says, although I think that the Bible does disallow anal intercourse among male homosexuals and bisexuals should only have marital relationships with people of the opposite sex(contrary to what was portrayed in Kissing Jessica Stein), and constitutional homosexual females should only have relationships with other constitutional lesbians.
But I'm not going to push the issue that hard with Semeia or Icon. I am not going to accuse them of using holy water in their toilet.
Pow said, I don't hold that saying that a sin is not a sin is mercy. Perhaps we disagree on that. BTW, DLW called it a sin too.
I may not understand Icon and Semeia's positions in full, IMHO they are a little too quick to dismiss traditional understandings re: sin. However, I prefer to not think about our differences so much as about what is and isn't sin, but what practices/habits should the Church have to make the best of the sin/crap-laden situations we find ourselves in, i.e. the ecclesiastical problems of order.
quote:
To DLW: What I see in those two threads is a "PC" antagonism.
You mean politcally-correct?
quote:
"PC" is antagonistic to the point of lumping everything together into one pile. Of course not everything in either of those threads did such together-lumping. May no one suggest I'm saying that it was. But I am saying that such "PC-lumping" was present in both threads. I witnessed it twice in a week-long College conference (Great Lakes College Association) about twelve years ago. Just the suggestion that one participant at the conference might recognize the ethnicity of another participant resulted in self-righteous austricism of that person my a major portion of the conference for the rest of the afternoon. (The participant had merely said that they were much more prone to identify other factors, such as experience, instead-of ethnicity -- confreence leaders later apologized to that individual.) Another incident was where a Pshych professor refused to recongnize that an ethics discussion about abortion was about the *differences* between the three terms. He could only repeatedly call all unborn "undifferentiated tissue", even when specifics were hightlighted and brought to his attention. He was manic in his reaction.
I'm sorry I still don't think I understand you. My problem with your general discourse on the abortion link is that you took such an extremely different tack on the issue that it was out of kilter with what I had been trying to say. Anyways, being pc may also be a way of being charitable to dissenting views by phrasing the subject of contention in a manner that allows for dissent. The psych professor above was not being pc in such a manner. Your insistence that I was denying God was the who and the why (or something) for human fetal development also felt like such.
So I don't know if that sows up any wounds or just makes things worse, but I really am trying to be a peace-maker here.
dlw
I-uh-scream-uh,
You-uh-scream-uh,
We-all-uh-sceam-uh for
Ice-uh-cream-uh!!!
Roberto Bernigni in
Down by Law.
ahehmAmericanzituhsen! This,varrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry! Varrrrrrrybaadfuryur
Cuntry!
Roberto Benigni in
Johnny Stecchenino. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/26/2003 4:40 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
So I don't know if that sows up any wounds or just makes things worse, but I really am trying to be a peace-maker here.
You do a nice job as peace-maker, Dave.
quote:
Your insistence that I was denying God was the who and the why (or something) for human fetal development ...
What I was saying was that you constructed your system on-a-foundation-of "when", whereas my conviction is built-on-a-foundation-of "who" any "why/for what end." I wasn't mis-reading you there; I was charting the differences in what we were doing and why. (Does that help you understand any better?)
Thanks, Dave. | | Back to Top | | |
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shell
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280
| Posted 7/27/2003 9:41 AM (GMT -6) | | Semeia is back!!!!   [:X]Yahoo!
I've missed you terribly!!!
love,
Shell
I sent you an email today... | | Back to Top | | |
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Springs
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
| Posted 7/27/2003 5:14 PM (GMT -6) | | Hey Semeia!!!
Good to hear from you!
Pow wrote: "On the "Gay man" thread on the very first page I posted about mercy and understanding. Then for the next ten pages or so Icon railed about how they were entirely lacking in anyone that did not hold his view."
IMHO One of the most striking things about that thread was the grace and restraint consistently exhibited by Iconoclast as he was stayed focused on the issue in the midst of comments along this vein.
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/27/2003 6:23 PM (GMT -6) | | | http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2342 | | Back to Top | | |
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