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Springs
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
 
   Posted 6/25/2003 6:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have some serious surfin' envy going on. You are the king of research. You are the prince of posters, the duke of digging, the saint of surfers, the pontiff of pontificators, er, well, suffice it to say, your searching skills are admirable.

Since I worship the God whose spirit annoints you, perhaps you could see your way clear to applying some of your talent to-me-ward.

I am trying to find some scholarly, juried, articles on the recommended size for Human Resource departments in relation to the size of the companies they service.

Springs



"Your love will kill me." Lyrics by Luc Plamondon for Notre-Dame de Paris, based on The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by Victor Hugo.
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Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
 
   Posted 6/25/2003 6:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fred is our beloved PotOnWheel?

Here:
http://www.amanet.org/books/catalog/0814479677.htm

at $250.00, a steal no doubt



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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 6/25/2003 6:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sounds like Laika knows what he's talking about.

quote:
Springs

I am trying to find some scholarly, juried, articles on the recommended size for Human Resource departments in relation to the size of the companies they service.


Wo do you consult. Programs that grant degrees in HR? (Adult continuing ed.) Maybe a prof.; or maybe someone did a research project on it lately. Consult a company? Do ERIC searches (or the equivalent) as to publishing done on that topic. Abstracts from business journals?


ASK A LIBRARIAN?

"ask Jeeves?"


Good luck!

Edited by - fred on 06/26/2003 2:20:20 PM
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Springs
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
 
   Posted 6/25/2003 7:28 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks Laika, Wow.

Fred:
quote:

Wo do you consult. Programs that grant degrees in HR? (Adult continuing ed.) Maybe a prof.; or maybe someone did a research project on it lately. Consult a company? Do ERIC searches (or the equivalent) as to publishing done on that topic. Abstracts from business journals?


ASK A LIBRARIAN?

"ask Jeeves?"




I knew you were going to respond in this manner. Sheesh. For an artist that refuses to fit anybody's mold, you just did the teacher thing real well. Thanks for the good luck wishes though.

I have been engaged in doing all of the above for the last year and a half. I have articles from ERIC, interviews, pages and pages of pieces from journals. Not for the aforemention question mind you, but well, I was just curious about it, and thought that since you can make articles shoot from your fingertips you could conjur me up a couple, but hey, no biggie, professors will be professors, aristis or no.

-S






"Your love will kill me." Lyrics by Luc Plamondon for Notre-Dame de Paris, based on The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by Victor Hugo.



Edited by - Springs on 06/25/2003 12:29:16 PM
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 6/25/2003 8:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
professors will be professors, aristis or no.





quote:
the recommended size for Human Resource departments in relation to the size of the companies they service.



Always big enough to include employing YOU.
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S.B.G.
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143
 
   Posted 6/25/2003 10:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Laika,
Your familiarity with the internet is astounding!

Can you (or others) find me a good Regae band for a party I am planning? Oh, they must be in MN. I'm thinking of Zuni and Heart of Africa, anybody heard them?

Sorry Springs, I know this is off the topic. (it's still in the advice category)

S.B.G.

To understand and to be understood is bliss.
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 6/25/2003 11:22 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We might also run a CONTEST


to discover the cutest chick


on CVM!


====================================================


Here's my contestant:





She's a little shy. So show her some support!
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Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
 
   Posted 6/26/2003 3:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
SeriouslyBrilliantGoddess wants to get down:
quote:

Can you (or others) find me a good Regae band for a party I am planning? Oh, they must be in MN. I'm thinking of Zuni and Heart of Africa, anybody heard them?



Here's a page of links to funky Minnesota bands
an oxymoron, "funky Minnesota"

www.tcreggae.com/localreggae.html






Edited by - Laika on 06/26/2003 08:34:02 AM
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S.B.G.
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143
 
   Posted 6/26/2003 3:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Awesome! Thanks Laika!!

S.B.G.

To understand and to be understood is bliss.
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 6/26/2003 7:20 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.



FROM A DEGREE PROGRAM ADVERTISEMENT

quote:
The human resource departments of corporations and governmental organizations are growing in both importance and size. In recent years, they have often played an increasingly important role due to court decisions and laws related to such employee rights issues as equal employment, drug testing, AIDS in the workplace, and unjust dismissal. These responsibilities have been added to the traditional ones of recruiting, selecting, training, and evaluating personnel, and administering compensation and benefit programs. Job prospects in this growing field are excellent.






GOV. DOC http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos021.htm

quote:
In a small organization, a human resources generalist may handle all aspects of human resources work, requiring a broad range of knowledge. The responsibilities of human resources generalists can vary widely, depending on their employer's needs. In a large corporation, the top human resources executive usually develops and coordinates personnel programs and policies. (Executives are included in the Handbook statement on top executives.) These policies are usually implemented by a director or manager of human resources and, in some cases, a director of industrial relations.

AND MORE....CLICK ABOVE FOR DOC.






http://www.chron.com/cgi-bin/auth/story.mpl/content/adpub/jobs/professional/stories/human.html
Human resources law a fast-growing field





Companies Dealt with Last Year's Economic Uncertainty by Restructuring and Shifting Operations and Staff, Saratoga Institute Survey Finds
http://www.pwcglobal.com/extweb/ncpressrelease.nsf/docid/85E5F27D1A0CB46785256D4F0060AFC0





The ratio currently used today to substantiate the size of a Human Resources department is one HR professional per 100 employees.
http://www.bplans.com/c/sp/d/Index.cfm?s=906&topic=22

quote:
4.1 Target Market Segment Strategy

EBA will target companies with 10-500 employees. It is EBA's goal to be recognized for providing high quality benefits administration and outstanding customer service for this size client who is often overlooked in the market place.

The ratio currently used today to substantiate the size of a Human Resources department is one HR professional per 100 employees. As a company grows, the HR department should also grow proportionately. However, most smaller companies are charged with complying withy the federal and state employment and discrimination laws no matter their size. Human Resources departments are responsible for this compliance. Therefore the level of expertise of a 'personnel clerk' twenty or so years ago, does not parallel the expertise once would need today. There are many companies with 500 employees or less whoa re faced with laws that only existed in the last 10 or so years.

In summary, companies now have many more Human Resources related rules and regulations to comply with, and adding more 'overhead' personnel is very costly. By outsourcing these administrative functions, companies are paying for a service and are not burdened by more overhead costs.




I'LL SEND YOU A BILL, SPRINGS!






http://www.expressitpeople.com/20030428/management2.shtml
quote:
Dedicated full-department

HRD departments may become developed depending upon the size of the organisation and its needs. It is not uncommon to have large-size HR departments in large-size organisations. For example, in some organisations, the size of HR departments runs into hundreds. In IT companies in developing countries, there is an HR person for every 50 to 100 knowledge workers. In large-size organisations, HR tasks may be subdivided. Different HR staff may deal with different HR tasks. There can also be a dedicated full-scope HRD Ministry in a country.









Edited by - PotOnWheel on 06/26/2003 12:29:20 PM
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 6/26/2003 7:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.




HERE'S A CUTE PUPPY TOO!


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Springs
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
 
   Posted 6/29/2003 6:40 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Fred! Thanks!

That's quite a variety of sources you pulled up! Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. I left town for a few days last Thursday morning.

Even though a promotion for outsourcing HR administration isn't a juried article, it was still fun to see that you could actually find an article with a line in it that answered my question almost verbatim. You are the superstar.

thanks again,
Springs






"Your love will kill me." Lyrics by Luc Plamondon for Notre-Dame de Paris, based on The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by Victor Hugo.
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Springs
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
 
   Posted 6/29/2003 6:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Here's the article I found:

quote:
InfoTrac Web: General BusinessFile ASAP.

Source: The Controller's Report, June 2003 p16.
Title: HR headcounts. (Staying Current).(revenue per full-time-equivalent employee accounting method)
Subjects: Human resource departments - Accounting and auditing
Accounting - Technique
Locations: United States
Electronic Collection: A102165038
RN: A102165038
Full Text COPYRIGHT 2003 Institute of Management & Administration

Many controllers use a common benchmark--revenue per full-timeequivalent (FTE)employee--to make sure company employment does not grow faster than its supporting revenue. At the same time, many of these same CR readers use a similar measure--total FTEs per FTE in human resources--to make sure the headcount in HR, and its associated costs, are not growing faster than the employee base it serves.

So that our readers can apply this benchmark to their own companies, CR provides the associated table. This shows total company FTEs per FTE in HR by quartiles in eight industry sectors, five regions, three sales groups, two asset sizes, and five employment levels. Upshot: This table gives most controllers four perspectives on their staff levels in HR.

We emphasize that these benchmarks have one shortcoming. Namely, they do not corroborate FTEs in HR to the degree of HRIS implementation. Even so, these norms do suggest that larger companies, where HRIS is more common, may already be benefiting from these systems. Reason: At median companies with 5,000 or more employees, there are 171 FTEs for each FTE in HR, more than triple the load at smaller (less than 500 employees) companies. Clearly, these larger companies already enjoy the benefits of scale in their HR staffing, which HRIS
only raises. Key point: Such companies have already shifted time-consuming HR paperwork to employees, where self-interest dictates they provide information accurately and promptly.

Note that Watson Wyatt Data Services, the consulting firm that developed these norms, defines total FTE employees as: "The average monthly number of all full-time and FTE employees. Part-time employees are those who work less than the normal hours per week. To convert part-timers to FTE, sum all part-time hours and divide by the baseline annual hours (e.g. 40 weekly hours X 52 weeks = 2,080 annual hours). Add this number to total full-time employees to get the
total FTE employees. Excluded are temporary and contract workers."

(Source: Survey Report on Workforce Efficiency 2003)
Total FTE Employees Per Human Resources Function FTE
Employees

First Third
Quartile Median Quartile

Industry Sector Analysis

Durable goods manufacturing 52 85 104
Non-durable goods manufacturing 59 96 144
Utilities & energy 42 65 79
Retail & wholesale trade 87 188 246
Services 45 64 103
Health care 79 113 137
Banking & finance 40 53 72
Insurance 36 50 97

Regional Analysis

Northeast 46 68 112
Southeast 59 80 131
North Central 54 84 112
South Central 43 86 138
West Coast 43 78 138

Sales Size Group Analysis

Under $100. 0 Million 36 50 84
$100.0-$499.9 Million 64 94 130
$500.0 Million and over 67 97 186
All Sales Size Groups Combined 55 86 124

Asset Size Group Analysis

Under $1 Billion 28 36 60
$1 Billion and over 43 62 97
All Asset Size Groups Combined 37 53 91

Employee (FTE) Size Group Analysis

Under 500 employees 36 50 79
500-999 employees 56 83 108
1,000-1,999 employees 68 89 105
2,000-4,999 employees 63 97 137
5,000 employees and over 99 171 258
All Employee Size Groups Combined 51 80 119

-- End --




They don't get much drier than that.



"Your love will kill me." Lyrics by Luc Plamondon for Notre-Dame de Paris, based on The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by Victor Hugo.
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