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Mephi2K
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713

Posted 8/12/2002 9:42 PM (GMT -6)

Ok. I'm kinda busy...but I REEEEEEEALY want some type of theological response for this phenomena. Bump the movie. Is all this stuff is merely human propagated hoaxes? If not, then what? Some of these circles just do NOT seem able to be made by human beings. Far too precise. What do you think?

Please check out this website...

http://cropcirclesthemovie.com

http://cropcircleconnector.com

PLEASE make sure to check out the actual pictures on the websites.

It would seem to me that people like us who are prone to believe in spontaneous plagues, demon oppression, humans walking on water, and resurrected "spiritual bodies" should not have too much of a problem with accepting these mysteries...riiight?

Mephi2K
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713

Posted 8/13/2002 5:05 AM (GMT -6)

Hey. This is JUST to make sure that THIS one is seen by all...

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2002/beaconhill/beaconhill2002a.html

Nice fake? Done at night? With NO lights? In ONE night? Hmmm...

BJS
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Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 587

Posted 8/13/2002 5:54 AM (GMT -6)

Not too long ago, a couple of guys in England admitted to being behind a rash of crop circles. If I remember correctly, they described a rather impressive mechanical process. If I can find that news story, I'll post it.

Also, as you know, a lot of the info on these kind of websites is less than reliable.

Brett

"Siste viator et memento mori."

Mephi2K
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713

Posted 8/13/2002 6:03 AM (GMT -6)

BJS,

I've heard about that, actually. They claimed to have done over 100 of them (Yeeaaah.) And it goes without saying about the internet. However, it's also my understanding that documentaries have been done on this thing. (Check out the History Channel website and the Crop Circles Movie site) I'd feel REALLY uncomfortable trying to relegate ALL crop circle phenomena to "hoaxing" for about the same reason as other (Check the Real Audio interview on one of the websites) There is no doubt that some of those crop circles are faked. But some of the intricacy, geometric precision, and size of them seem to speak against human involvement.

Hmmm...doesn't it raise SOME eyebrows at least...if we be completely honest with it? I think so.

BJS
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 587

Posted 8/13/2002 8:18 AM (GMT -6)

I don't mean to imply that this phenomenon isn't intriguing. Sounds like you have looked into it a bit farther than I have. I'll have to check out the History Channel story.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure you don't need to keep that tin foil cone on your head. [that will only be funny if you've seen the movie . . .

]

Brett

"Siste viator et memento mori."

BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763

Posted 8/13/2002 1:21 PM (GMT -6)

So if there are fake one's that can duplicate the real ones...to a T, tee, tea...whatever...through mechanical processes that Brett describes, then is it not probable that the real one's are themselve's fake?

In the movie, part of the reason crop circles were not believed in was because of the time span between makings. However, in the movie, crop circles were appearing all over the place within such a short span of time making human involvement highly suspect.

In the Catholic church, miracles have to pass a certain criteria over the span of years to truly proclaim that a miracle has indeed taken place. Should not crop circles pass some sort of criteria in order to validate their authenticity?

Just to let you know Meph, I didnt' listen to the audio on the particular 'puter I was on this morning.

Brandon
"Sharing a prison cell unites you much more powerfully than sharing a conference table."--Ecumenical Jihad: Ecumenism and the Culture War

GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/16/2002 6:09 AM (GMT -6)

Since we know that SOME crop circles HAVE been explained as hoaxes, we have good grounds to believe that ALL crop circles are hoaxes. And while it's hard to fathom how some of these intricate crop circles could be hoaxes, it seems much more probable than accepting that aliens created them.

I vote "all hoaxes"

Doc

"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6

churchmouse522
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 163

Posted 8/16/2002 6:54 AM (GMT -6)

Always the skeptic, Greg. Aren't you the one that says for every genuine spiritual phenomenon there will be a corresponding "rip-off" to get us to doubt? Just because some crop circles have been hoaxes does not mean they all are. Maybe crop circles are God's way of getting us to realize we may not know everything. Maybe Jesus is messing with us. Maybe there really are other living creations that we don't know anything about. Maybe we aren't the center of the friggin' universe. Who knows?

I personally like the fact that the world contains some mystery.

Mouse

GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/16/2002 7:12 AM (GMT -6)

Yes mouse, certainly. And maybe there's invisible giant mice creating these things as signs to Neo-Nazi invisible roaches in Zimbambua to tell them to avoid snail entrails on Tuesdays except when its raining. And maybe...

But since we have some evidence that humans can do crop circles and have done circles, and no evidence that aliens or invisible mice can do or have done crop circles, I tend to favor the former hypothesis.

Besides, theres PLENTY of mystery in the universe without unexplained crop circles.

Doc

ps. Now watch. With my luck aliens will invade tomorrow and land on those crop circles. And, as the world is being taken over and we are farmed out to alien scientific experiments, I can hear mouse giggling saying, "I was RIGHT. Told you so. hee hee..."

"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6

GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/16/2002 7:15 AM (GMT -6)

This is mouse disguised as Doc because he used my computer to post his last post and forgot to log out even though I explicitly warned him to do so. Oh the power...

Mouse

"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6

churchmouse522
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 163

Posted 8/16/2002 7:17 AM (GMT -6)

Dang! Busted. Oh well.

Empiress
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Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 363

Posted 8/16/2002 8:28 AM (GMT -6)

From some of the more reputable documentaries I've seen mathemeticians and other experts have said they cannot fathom how some crop circles were generated using the methods the hoaxters use given the amount of time required and the mathematical intricacy of them. If it was as easy to explain away all crop circles as some say it is, it would not continue to intrigue the experts. The problem is, many cannot be explained.

I for one think it is still a mystery. Since I haven't seen the movie, I'm not sure what theological issues it raises. Obviously some people attribute them to "aliens" (which I don't believe), but like Mouse said, it could really be anything.

~Empiress

Mephi2K
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713

Posted 8/16/2002 9:15 AM (GMT -6)

Doc,

LOLOLOL!

I don't EVEN believe you, my good sir! You are willing to accept the ancient writing from diverse peoples in diverse places with archaic worldview who talk about talking donkeys, splitting seas, fissures opening to swallow families, she-bears mauling kids...

but you are NOT willing to accept the possibility of non-human agents doing it seemingly supported by the IMMENSE mathematical intricacy and timeframe...or the documentaries and pictures that we can SEE and VERIFY??? [You DID see the pictures and listen to the Real Audio things, right?]

Friggin AMAZING!

Mad love, man,

Edited by - Mephi2K on 08/16/2002 2:18:03 PM

GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/16/2002 11:11 AM (GMT -6)

POSSIBLE, yes. But PROBABLE -- given that we have a feasible alternative?

Heh crew, I'll be out in London with no access to the internet for 10 days. So see you then.

In the meantime, watch out for aliens and giant mice

In his love

Doc

"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6

JCsites.com
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 169

Posted 8/17/2002 4:26 AM (GMT -6)

Oh great, now some anti-open theists are going to publish some article stating that Greg Boyd thinks aliens are responsible for crop circles.

o.k. you lurkers. I know you're out there reading this! I implore you, don't take him out of context!!!

In fact, don't even take this thread seriously. It's just us, having some fun, "what if" conversation.

Remember, these posts are really like free form discussion that we all have after Church each Sunday. Only this gang isn't talking about going to the lake. They have some kind of proclivity for tough or strange topics.

Yes this would be a strange topic. Hey lurkers. I dare ya. Ya dare you. Why don't you consider actually joining the conversation instead of eavesdropping? Go ahead, register and post. You'll like it. Everybody's doing it. We really would like you input. We'll be nice, no really we will.

Great. Just Great. After reading this, everyone's gonna think JC Sites guy has lost his rocker and has become paranoid schizo talking to the so called "lurkers" on this board.

I just can't win....

Jcsites guy

BBBCanada
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763

Posted 8/17/2002 4:54 AM (GMT -6)

Have any of you actually ever seen Bigfoot? Yedi? Flying Saucers? Lochness? Elvis?

With all the high technology that we have today? And over 5 billion people on earth? You would think we would have some substantial evidence of their existence. Yet, all we get is "residue," "leftovers." We know they were here because of footprints, burn marks and McDonald's chain restaurants (we've got a zillion of all of these). Yet why can't we get the "real McCoy?"

I mean, "SHOW YOURSELF ALIEN, BIGFOOT, LOCHNESS and ELVIS!"

Maybe these biblical stories are more believeable for other reasons.

And that is what makes us diffent from our ancestors. I'm sure if they had the kind of technology we have we may have "raw" undeniable evidence.

Brandon
"Sharing a prison cell unites you much more powerfully than sharing a conference table."--Ecumenical Jihad: Ecumenism and the Culture War

Modes of Thought
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817

Posted 8/19/2002 5:23 AM (GMT -6)

JC guy, you are the best! I laughed out loud reading your post. Good point though.

love ya man.

"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK

geej
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 93

Posted 8/23/2002 3:13 PM (GMT -6)

You know, if God took the time make our planet so infinitely detailed, why not life...out there.....? Why not crop circles not made by human hands? Everything's possible..right?
As a skeptic, I'll go for the hoax stance...most of the time. But it would make things a little more interesting to live with a little of the unknown too.
Geej

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 8/26/2002 5:02 PM (GMT -6)

Great link Mephi. We do live in a world with many, many mysteries.
Especially when anything supernatural is considered mysterious.

Springs

Springs
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 8/26/2002 5:06 PM (GMT -6)

Oh I almost forgot,
Very funny BJ and JC sites guy!

And by the way BBC, I've seen bigfoot.

Hi WD.

Springs

BBBCanada
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763

Posted 8/27/2002 3:15 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
And by the way BBC, I've seen bigfoot.

This is exactly what I am talking 'bout!

Now, besides getting a plaster cast of Bigfoot's foot imprint, did you get authentic picture taken of you two shaking hands or sum'n like that?

Let me know.

Brandon
"Sharing a prison cell unites you much more powerfully than sharing a conference table."--Ecumenical Jihad: Ecumenism and the Culture War

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 8/27/2002 1:53 PM (GMT -6)

I don’t have a photo but let’s see if you get the picture. I was “up north” as they say around these parts, just outside of Bemidji, Minnesota. Where you don’t have to be picking the blueberries nestled underneath the Jack’s to appreciate the scent of pine. The weather was fine. The great outdoors was calling my name. A couple of my friends and I packed up my canoe and headed for a little lake.

Through the morning we paddled across lakes and up streams into the state forest. We talked and laughed and critiqued each other’s seamanship. We saw an eagle flying high, heard a loon sweetly calling, and enjoyed the feel of the cool water in the early summer sun. Occasionally, we’d say, “look out for that rock” or “whoa, there’s a big bass, did you see that?” At one point some critter was running along beside us in the woods, just out of sight. The guys said it was probably just a raccoon.

We broke for lunch in a place where the stream looped back on itself in a crazy S curve. There was a sandbar in the middle of the stream and almost a bit of beach, near one side where the reeds were parted. After lunch we decided to turn back and begin to drift homeward. Randy was on the rudder, I was in the middle, and Jerry was up front. The width of the stream varied from eight to twelve feet and it wasn’t very deep. The sandy edges of the stream were in some areas filled with reeds, in other areas long grasses sprouting from the sand for a few feet until the mossy edge of the forest began. It seemed the forest had joined our siesta. The bugs were humming lazily and the water was barely gurgling.

We were enjoying the beauty of the woods when all of the sudden not fifteen feet away on the bank of the stream, beyond the grass and moss, and just behind the first saplings I saw a huge figure standing straight up, facing toward me, and staring right at me. I felt like I had been struck by lightening. I was so shocked I couldn’t look away. I stared dumbly back, without moving, while my mind reeled trying to make sense of what I was seeing. No word of description entered my mind; I could not name it.

It must have been eight or nine feet tall. Its huge shoulders and neck were completely covered in hair although I could see some flesh in the chest area. The head was massive. The hair was unkempt and fell down to meet the hair on the neck and shoulders. The eyes were deep and penetrating. The face was that of a man, with large rugged features that had never known a razor. After what seemed like an eternity but what must have been about three seconds, I tore my glance away to look at Jerry, who by this time had his head cranked almost all the way around in my direction, as his eyes followed the creature. We looked at each other in awe, and in the same instant, with fear in our voices, we asked each other simultaneously, ”Did you see that?” Then knowing we needed no verbal answer, we just as quickly turned our eyes back toward the creature, and it was gone. We were filled with dread. No one spoke. We knew we had just been face to face with the unknown. A great beast like creature that had in his eyes the unmistakable gleam of reason.

-S

Edited by - Springs on 08/27/2002 7:17:45 PM

PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 8/27/2002 2:05 PM (GMT -6)

Springs: "No one spoke. We knew we had just been face to face with the unknown. A great beast like creature that had in his eyes the unmistakable gleam of reason."

Was that before or after the wrestler got elected Governor?

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 8/27/2002 2:16 PM (GMT -6)

These are my sons reactions to reading my yedi post.
Son 1: shakes head dubiously and says, “Tales of [insert my name here].”
Son 2: Did that really happen mom?
Me: Yeah, I saw bigfoot.
Son 2: Right.
M: You don’t believe me.
Son 2: When was this?
M: In Bemidji just outside…

S: I think you saw a bear. Is that story true?
M: This is one of my memories.
S: I can’t believe it. Especially after you got really mad at me and E___ for scaring C___ half to death in the woods when we told him yedi was coming.
M: He was young then.
S: It wasn’t that long ago. You saw a yedi mom?
M:

Come on, a real yedi? Well, I guess you can tell all the scientists about it and be famous.
M: Just because I don’t have proof, I can’t say that was my experience?
S: Well, I believe in God, but mom, a yedi, alright, whatever, but I’m wondering about you mom.

Springs
Is it safer to admit to aliens?

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 8/27/2002 2:21 PM (GMT -6)

Al,
That gave me a belly laugh. God bless the gov.
-S

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