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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/24/2002 3:42 PM (GMT -6) |   | Hi ya'll. Back in the states just a few hours ago and thought I'd give you a little report on how the week in London with the Ichthus revival went. Summary:
WOW
I LOVE this fellowship. Ichthus fellowship is a charismatic movement started by Roger Forester in 1974. It consists of 26 congretations formed by house churches of 10 to 20 people. They also have a ton of "link" churches all over England and through Europe. (I think WHC should be the first American "Link"). I have never found a fellowship that so perfectly and profoudly expresses the Kingdom values and principles I hold dear. I have never experienced so much of the Kingdom at one time as I did this week. Each year they hold a camp meeting where all the congregations and "link" churches are invited to come, worship together, hold seminars, etc... I and Winkie Pratney were the guest speakers this year. And it was an outstanding time. I camp back physically exhausted but spiritually PUMPED. Here's a few highlights.
* Winkie Pratney, whom some of you may know (a well known international revival teacher, closely associated with YWAM) is a little kid with a genius brain and a Christ heart in a 58 year old body. We had a BLAST together. He's applying fractal thinking in ways I never dreamed.
* Roger Forester continues to win my heart as the first and only living person I've ever aspired to be like (a serious caveat in my education, I know, but better late than never). His servant leadershp and insights into scripture are incredible.
* The movement is HUGE into the spiritual warfare/ openness paradigm. Partly for historical reasons, many in this movement see Calvinism as a serious hinderance to the advance of the Kingdom. They are much less subtle about the "tension" between Calvinism and openness than over here.
* Their worship, largely under the influence of Graham Kendrick (author of "Shine Jesus Shine"), who is part of this movement, is PROFOUND. It is so God exalting, Christ centered, AND FREE. I experienced the power of God's presence each night and felt like I got a renewed and clearer vision of his beauty and magnificence each night.
* The community is really advanced in LOVE WITHOUT JUDGEMENT. One evidence of this is the incredible DIVERSITY of this community. You have bald headed women, spiked purple haired teens, cigarette smoking bikers, tatooed body-pierced gothic types, worshipping right along with dancing old ladies with buns. ALL WITH ADORING PASSION. The racial mix was great too -- much beyond the populations percentages.
* One of the most outstanding things was the way they sometimes integrated children into their worship. They don't get upset with children running around and making noise in service. It's FAMILY. During worship, kids are dancing with parents all over the place.
* Their YOUTH were incredible. Its really REALLY amazing to see 250 teens (ages 11 to 16) jumping up and down with their hands in the air singing grunge type songs to the Lord. Then some get on their knees, lay prostrate on the ground, cry and hug each other... as the Lord moves.
* Perhaps the thing that impressed me most was their CHILDREN. They are EMPOWERED to be used by God. I had a 9 year old ask me out of nowhere if he could pray for me. While he prayed, he started crying.
A man with a smashed arm mentioned in a service that he hadn't slept for more than an hour at a time for the last year and a half because of the discomfort of his arm (it had metal splinters in it from his wrist to his elbow). An eight year old girl asked him if she could pray for him. He politely said yes, not really expecting it would do anything more than encourage the little girl. The next day he testified before everyone that that night he slept 8 hours straight for the first time in 18 months! The next day he testified that he slept all night for the second time in a row and felt like a new man!
In the childrens church one morning (the morning I had to give a talk), a 6 year-old boy mentioned that he had a dream the night before that he thought was from the Lord. He got up to the mike and told everyone he saw some men sitting around a table deciding whether or not to pass a law that would result in persecuting missionaries (the children develop a global awareness in this fellowship that is remarkable). In his dream he felt led to pray that these men would not pass this law. He then saw waves of water coming over the men. The boy wasn't sure what it meant, so the leader asked all the children (ages 5 to 10) to help interpret the dream. They agreed that they were to pray for a wave of blessing to come over these men so that they would not persecute missionaries. The children all stood up and made waves with their hands as they prayed for these men. It brought tears to my eyes.
Immediately after this they introduced a man who was to talk about his missionary work (they did this every morning -- to kids 5 to 10 years old). He informed them that he ran a psychiatric ward and mission in a communist country (I don't recall which country) and that AT THE PRESENT TIME the state was seeking to close down his clinic and mission!!!! The prayer, he believed, was for HIS SITUATION.
Acts 2:17 ‘In the last days it will be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams.
WHAT A BLESSING!!!
So, I am home, tired, refreshed and revived.
To speak quite frankly, THIS KIND OF CHRISTIANITY -- the whole feel of it, the style of it, the freedom of it, the love in it -- is about seventeen million miles apart from the kind of thing one often experiences in standard Amercian evangelical circles, especially in academia.
It is the fresh air of the kingdom.
No, its not perfect. They've got their ordinary people problems like the rest of us. But the Spirit is there, Christ's love is there, the radical kingdom is there... and it restores ones confidence to be around it.
Just thought you might want to know. Maybe some of you want to take a vacation to England next year around this time and check it out?
In his love
Greg
"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/25/2002 07:13:37 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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n/a
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 218
| Posted 8/24/2002 8:32 PM (GMT -6) | | Wow! That was beautiful!
Greg said:"* The movement is HUGE into the spiritual warfare/ openness paradigm. Partly for historical reasons, many in this movement see Calvinism as a serious hinderance to the advance of the Kingdom. They are much less subtle about the "tension" between Calvinism and openness than over here.
"
Sounds like my kind of movement.
Glad you had a good time Mr.Boyd
Have a good day!
faithful
"To conceptualize God differently from another model is not to reduce God to one's own idea of what God should be."
~Major J. Jones
Edited by - faithfullservent on 08/25/2002 01:34:38 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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timlings
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 130
| Posted 8/25/2002 7:22 AM (GMT -6) | | Hey Greg
I'm glad you had a grroovy time at Revive! I was thinking about going, but instead did a 2 week camp for teenagers in north devon. Nice.
I also have much respect for Ichthus too. I've just finished a degree at a college in South London, and so got in contact a lot with Ichthus people. Roger's wife, Faith, even spoke at our CU several times, which was ace. Their theology I find really refreshing and exciting: Spirit-filled, word-based and Jesus-centric. Hurrah!
I have had a few bad experiences with them too though. In my first year at Uni in London, I went to an Ichthus church, but found it frustrating and hard to get to know people, so I left. But I still have a lot of respect for everything they do.
Tim
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 8/25/2002 10:57 AM (GMT -6) | | Greg! Awesome! Kinda reminds me of a church here in my city started over 15 years ago. The pastor, Rick Ciaramitaro (pronouced, cym-a-tero) graduated from Rhema Bible School. I'm not crazy over his preaching at times. But the church does things that others in this church only talk about doing.
Their worship leader (Brian Danter) used to be in a rock band called "Tease." They travelled to Japan one year with "KISS" (Kings in Satan's Service,  the meaning of the acronym, it's a rumor anyhow). Of recent, Brian has played with the likes of Glenn Kaiser of Rez Band. One year, one little 'ol lady said to Brian, "You make me wanna shake my A**!" HA! HA! That's funny! 'Cause that's the kinda of motely crew disciples this church attracts. People just being themselves. Check out their site and what they're doing!
www.netcore.ca/~wcf/
By the way, their little kiddies do the "Holy Hop" as well. 
Brandon
"Sharing a prison cell unites you much more powerfully than sharing a conference table."--Ecumenical Jihad: Ecumenism and the Culture War | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 8/25/2002 5:12 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Partly for historical reasons, many in this movement see Calvinism as a serious hinderance to the advance of the Kingdom. They are much less subtle about the "tension" between Calvinism and openness than over here.
Oh, that's just GREAT!   
More of those who don't really know Calvinism. Calvinism in the British Isles is a bird half its own species--different from on the Continent. But far too many use a sterio type that Reformed would never accept, and have never personally known! Like fatalism. Foreign.
The world does not need bad steriotypes!
Edited by - Al2Si2H4O9 on 08/25/2002 10:15:43 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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writerdad
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 8/25/2002 7:07 PM (GMT -6) | | What some see as stereotypes, others see as the natural outworking of such a theology...you say toemato I say toMAto...
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 8/25/2002 8:01 PM (GMT -6) | | Now now Al, don't steriotype our steriotypes!
Tom 
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 8/26/2002 2:57 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
writerdad
Zosima
USA
621 Posts Posted - 08/26/2002 : 12:07:25 AM
-------------------------------
What some see as stereotypes, others see as the natural outworking of such a theology...you say toemato I say toMAto...
TGB
Zosima
Lebanon
752 Posts Posted - 08/26/2002 : 01:01:11 AM
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Now now Al, don't steriotype our steriotypes!
Tom
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde
Performing "natural outworkings of ... theology" to put your ideas into someone elses mouth is just pure SECOND GUESSING.
I'm pointing out that those who speak of "consistant Calvists" are second guessing. They are steriotyping. And it is to ignore their testemony.
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 8/26/2002 3:10 AM (GMT -6) | | www.ichthus.org.uk/
If you go to their "training" page you will see a "God at War" conference that Greg spoke at. They do an interview with several people, Greg included. Got a chuckle out of what you said Greg.
God? Break Greg's pride? In Jesus name. Aaaaamen!
I believe you will soon sense some "stop action" coming your way Greg!
Brandon
"Sharing a prison cell unites you much more powerfully than sharing a conference table."--Ecumenical Jihad: Ecumenism and the Culture War | | Back to Top | | |
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brandi
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 118
| Posted 8/26/2002 3:24 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi Greg:
Sounds like God really blessed you during your visit to London. That's sweet! Praise God for the refreshing water he gives and that we get the chance to at times experience his refilling and refueling!
Doc quote:
Maybe some of you want to take a vacation to England next year around this time and check it out?
Sometimes I find that the hardest part of coming back from a moving experience like an awesome revival is that the ones we love back home didn't get to experience this same move thus cannot fully enter into our excitement... Won't it be awesome someday when we will all be able to continue on and experience this type of move without having to return back to the battlefield?
I praise God for the blessing you received, Greg! I pray that God would bring this type of revival experience to us here WITHOUT the walls that separate the flock. God is moving in our area but I believe there is a big obstacle that prevents a full move of the Spirit here. Many churches and groups are not willing to work together due to the differences that divide. Sometimes it seems people tend to focus too much on how we are different (and do things different) rather than on how we are united by the same God. Beyond that obstacle, even if this were not the case, people do not have time. Everyone is being pulled in MANY directions -- people are too busy with honest commitments. Still, I would love to see a move of the Spirit here like it sounds like you experienced there.
Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us!
~Brandi~
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Mephi2K
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 8/26/2002 4:41 AM (GMT -6) | |
Doc:
quote:
ps. Meph, you'd LOVE Ichthus Fellowship. (Check out my review in the Comments for Board). I thought of how grieved you were at the ETS last year when I was over there this last week. The CONTRAST in "spiritual climate" was about as extreme as you can imagine. The lightness, freedom, love, relaxedness -- combined with an intense, radical, sold-out passion for the Kingdom (NOT church, NOT religion, NOT theologies or ethical systems) was a thing of beauty.
Sounds like there was a great environment over there. Great to hear it! Unity in and through diversity. The true application of love. Freedom in worship (from quiet moments of communion to exhuberant exaltation). God's cool, ain't He/She/They/God? (See, Tom. No "IT"! )
Blessed to have you back, Doc!
Holla,
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