quote:

---

Ron, no hard feelings. You simply do not have a clue as to what I am talking about.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by feelinahole
John (wheres your new handle), I use to think we were on the same page. Now I realize we are not even reading the same book.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PotOnWheel
Free will is what God uses, once freed, to help us "will and to do" in our working out our own salvation.

---

quote:

---

We have politicized so much of theological language that we have a difficult time communicating. ANY mention of works (No thanks to Luther's attempt to dump the book of James, and his gall at inserting a word into Romans that Paul didn't write!) automatically gets wrapped up with a bad reading of Galations. Working out our salvation and being transformed by the Spirit in our innermost being and submitting our flesh to the Spirit's healing restoration and liberation from the bondage of sin gets miss-heard as a return to the Pharasaism of trusting our own effort and superficial rules as a replacement for God's work, or even as a club to force God's hand according to our own will. That's the bad fruit of politicising theology!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JEE

I have nothing but disdain for Luther's antinomianism.

---

quote:

---

Perhaps the greatest heresy of all time, Antinomianism preaches that souls are saved only by God's grace... and so there's absolutely no reason to refrain from every imaginable vice and sin.

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/heresy/antinomianism/

. . .

Many of Luther's students argued in favor of Antinomianism, but Luther himself vigorously refuted the notion. Still, it was a difficult row to hoe. Luther wanted to throw out the entire sin-penalty-forgiveness structure of the church, not just the indulgences but the sacrament of confession and the notion of earthly penance as well.

It was easy enough to toss the baby of sin out with the bathwater of penance. If you were dispensing with the earthly auspices of a religious-criminal justice system, why not simply call an end to the notion of sins and Hell altogether?

While Luther drew the line at Antinomianism, other Protestant sects did not. One of Luther's students was Johann Agricola, who believed that Christians were exempt from following the 10 Commandments.

Luther actually coined the word "Antinomianism" to describe Agricola's beliefs. Luther eventually pressured Agricola into recanting his heresy, but after Luther's death, he picked up right where he had left off ("lying" is in one of the 10 Commandments, after all).

Puritanism and Antinomianism went hand in hand, much like "repressed" and "pervert." As the staunchly Protestant Puritans staked out their ground in the New World, they brought their own subversive countermovement along for the ride.

The last of history's great Antinomians was Anne Hutchinson, a Puritan woman who resembled many of her Antinomian predecessors in that she talked a good game, but led a remarkably chaste and seemingly wholesome life. At least, that's the verdict of history. The fact that she had fifteen children should tell you something about her proclivities.

Hutchinson taught that God couldn't care less whether his people sinned, that there was no rule of law for Christians, and that Christians were not obligated to pray. Known as the "American Jezebel," Hutchison's major claim to fame was her trial and conviction for Antinomian heresy, which led to her banishment from the Puritan settlement near modern-day Boston in 1638.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by feelinahole

Jee: the fact that you ask such a question indicates that you have not understood anything I have written. Given your past emphasis on holiness it is so strange to read such words from you.

---

quote:

---

"So its safe to assume that your free will saves you..." yes, if thats the best you can come up in response to what I have written. I would continue to dialogue but since I am working my way to heaven I got a lot of catching up to do...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PotOnWheel

[quote]Originally posted by JEE

I have nothing but disdain for Luther's antinomianism.

---

quote:

---

Jee: the fact that you ask such a question indicates that you have not understood anything I have written. Given your past emphasis on holiness it is so strange to read such words from you. to be misunderstood by someone such as Ron who is so locked into the selective verse reasoning of much of Christendom is understandable (in which much of the New Testament is lost, shed at the altar of some preconceived notion of "mercy" and "grace"), but I thought you would at least glispme the ray of what I was saying. Apparently not. Oh well...
"So its safe to assume that your free will saves you..." yes, if thats the best you can come up in response to what I have written. I would continue to dialogue but since I am working my way to heaven I got a lot of catching up to do...

---

quote:

---

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

---

quote:

---

Found:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps the greatest heresy of all time, Antinomianism preaches that souls are saved only by God's grace... and so there's absolutely no reason to refrain from every imaginable vice and sin.

---

quote:

---

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

---