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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/4/2005 1:39 AM (GMT -6) |   | So what's the scoop? We're still online?
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 2:12 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/4/2005 2:43 AM (GMT -6) | | This Saturday? Funny. Try to guess where I'll be this Saturday, Laika. Go ahead. Guess.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 3:16 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 3:31 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/4/2005 4:46 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
1. Hawaii? No wait, that's your wife who will be in Hawaii. With her favorite cousin, Lars.
2. Amsterdam? Airports, women behind glass... kind of hazy to me.
3. Lebanon? Do Lebanese women like Tuck and Patti?
Amsterdam airport, behind the glass!
Ah, Virginia Mayo. What a beauty. I can't help mention (again) what King Muhammad Hussein of Morocco said back in the 40's after seeing a picture of her. He said, "Viginia Mayo is tangible proof of the existence of God."
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 4:51 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/4/2005 5:39 AM (GMT -6) | | I'm hiding this here:
I’m reading Philip Gulley and James Mulholland’s If Grace is True (1986). In it, the authors present their reasons for believing that God will save every person. I’m in the market for good books on just this sort of thing, so I bought it.
A third of the way into the book (the first third is just them rehearsing their own history and experience which influenced them over the years) you come upon this:
“Can a Christian believe God will save everyone? Obviously, if a Christian must believe the Bible is the ‘infallible words of God,’ the answer is no. There are too many verses about judgment, hell, and the eternal punishment of the wicked to make such optimism reasonable. If you are unwilling to question the Bible, neither my experiences nor my arguments will carry much weight. I had to abandon my need to protect every word of Scripture in order to consider what I now believe to be the core message of the Bible.”
A couple of pages later, the authors talk about “weighing” Scripture to discern what the truth is about God:
“Weighing Scripture is discerning which Scriptures accurately reflect God’s character. If all Scripture is equally inspired and authoritative, God is as likely to swallow us up in an earthquake or drown us in a flood as God is to forgive our sin and take us into his arms. The reported behavior of God in the Bible is erratic at best and nearly schizophrenic in some instances…
Weighing Scripture allows for the possibility that some descriptions of God and his behavior are inaccurate.”
I appreciate their honesty. It’s the first time I’ve heard a universalist agree that one has to simply judge the passages which talk of hell and eternal torment as just plain wrong. They admit there’s no ‘interpreting’ them in such a way that they come out supporting universalism. Just admit that much of the Bible is flat out wrong in much of its fundamental description of God, then interpret the “love” passages in universalistic fashion.
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/4/2005 5:43 AM (GMT -6) | | Laika-
We still need a picture for Bobber's Sci-fi-divine-time-travel-reverse causation theory of foreknowledge and providence. Can we come up with a logo for him?
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 5:45 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 5:52 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by TGB
I'm hiding this here:
I’m reading Philip Gulley and James Mulholland’s If Grace is True (1986). In it, the authors present their reasons for believing that God will save every person. I’m in the market for good books on just this sort of thing, so I bought it.
A third of the way into the book (the first third is just them rehearsing their own history and experience which influenced them over the years) you come upon this:
“Can a Christian believe God will save everyone? Obviously, if a Christian must believe the Bible is the ‘infallible words of God,’ the answer is no. There are too many verses about judgment, hell, and the eternal punishment of the wicked to make such optimism reasonable. If you are unwilling to question the Bible, neither my experiences nor my arguments will carry much weight. I had to abandon my need to protect every word of Scripture in order to consider what I now believe to be the core message of the Bible.”
A couple of pages later, the authors talk about “weighing” Scripture to discern what the truth is about God:
“Weighing Scripture is discerning which Scriptures accurately reflect God’s character. If all Scripture is equally inspired and authoritative, God is as likely to swallow us up in an earthquake or drown us in a flood as God is to forgive our sin and take us into his arms. The reported behavior of God in the Bible is erratic at best and nearly schizophrenic in some instances…
Weighing Scripture allows for the possibility that some descriptions of God and his behavior are inaccurate.”
I appreciate their honesty. It’s the first time I’ve heard a universalist agree that one has to simply judge the passages which talk of hell and eternal torment as just plain wrong. They admit there’s no ‘interpreting’ them in such a way that they come out supporting universalism. Just admit that much of the Bible is flat out wrong in much of its fundamental description of God, then interpret the “love” passages in universalistic fashion.
Tom
I had a really long 'discussion' with lock about universalism. Too many verses that use the same phrase to denote the length of our life in Christ, the length of God's rule, etc. also used to describe the duration of the punishment in the lake of fire.
The brutal parallelism of the use of the same word to describe the destiny of the sheep and the goats. lock's response was that it wasn't talking about people! rotflmao
The danger of universalism is it's deadening of the urgency that Jesus certainly displayed in scripture. To me, it's a pipedream, mere wishful thinking. Who wants to lull us into non-action? Not the God who said work while it's still day, not the God who said the fields are white with harvast, not the God who spent His last minutes bringing a thief with Him to paradise.
It's appointed for man, once to die, then comes judgment. Dead men don't repent.
inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/4/2005 5:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Bobber's new logo:
God sending information back in time.
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