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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 1/4/2005 5:44 AM (GMT -6) |   | Tsunami, Sovereignty, and Mercy
December 29, 2004
“The waves of death encompassed me, the torrents of destruction assailed me. . . This God—his way is perfect” (2 Samuel 22:5, 31).
After the loss of his ten children owing to a “natural disaster” (Job 1:19), Job said, “The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord” (Job 1:21). At the end of the book, the inspired writer confirms Job’s understanding of what happened. He says Job’s brothers and sisters “comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him” (Job 42:11). This has several crucial implications for us as we think about the calamity in the Indian Ocean.
1. Satan is not ultimate, God is.
Satan had a hand in Job’s misery, but not the decisive hand. God gave Satan permission to afflict Job (Job 1:12; 2:10). But Job and the writer of this book treat God as the ultimate and decisive cause. When Satan afflicts Job with sores, Job says to his wife, “Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” (Job 2:10), and the writer calls these satanic sores “the evil that the Lord had brought upon him” (Job 42:11). So Satan is real. Satan brings misery. But Satan is not ultimate or decisive. He is on a leash. He goes no farther than God decisively permits.
2. Even if Satan caused the earthquake in the Indian Ocean the day after Christmas, he is not the decisive cause of 100,000+ deaths, God is.
God claims power over tsunamis in Job 38:8 when he asks Job rhetorically, “Who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb . . . and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed’?” Psalm 89:8-9 says, “O Lord . . . you rule the raging of the sea; when its waves rise, you still them.” And Jesus himself has the same control today as he once did over the deadly threats of waves: “He . . . rebuked the wind and the raging waves, and they ceased, and there was a calm” (Luke 8:24). In other words, even if Satan caused the earthquake, God could have stopped the waves.
3. Destructive calamities in this world mingle judgment and mercy.
Their purposes are not simple. Job was a godly man and his miseries were not God’s punishment (Job 1:1, 8). Their design was purifying not punishment (Job 42:6). But we do not know the spiritual condition of Job’s children. Job was certainly concerned about them (Job 1:5). God may have taken their life in judgment. If that is true, then the same calamity proved in the end to be mercy for Job and judgment on his children. This is true of all calamities. They mingle judgment and mercy. They are both punishment and purification. Suffering, and even death, can be both judgment and mercy at the same time.
The clearest illustration of this is the death of Jesus. It was both judgment and mercy. It was judgment on Jesus because he bore our sins (not his own), and it was mercy toward us who trust him to bear our punishment (Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) and be our righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21). Another example is the curse that lies on this fallen earth. Those who do not believe in Christ experience it as judgment, but believers experience it as, merciful, though painful, preparation for glory. “The creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope” (Romans 8:20). This is God’s subjection. This is why there are tsunamis.
Who suffers from this fallen world of natural disasters? All of us, Christians included: “Not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies” (Romans 8:23). For those who cast themselves on the mercy of Christ these afflictions are “preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison” (2 Corinthians 4:17). And when death comes, it is a door to paradise. But for those who do not treasure Christ, suffering and death are God’s judgment. “It is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?” (1 Peter 4:17).
For children, who are too young to process mentally the revelation of God in nature or Scripture, death is not the final word of judgment. God’s commitment to display his justice publicly means that he does not finally condemn sinful people who could not physically construe natural or special revelation (Romans 1:20). There is a difference between suppressing revelation that one can mentally comprehend (Romans 1:18), and not having a brain sufficient to comprehend it at all. Therefore, when small children suffer and die, we may not assume they are being punished or judged. No matter how horrible the suffering or death, God can turn it for their greater good.
4. The heart that Christ gives to his people feels compassion for those who suffer, no matter what their faith.
When the Bible says, “Weep with those who weep” (Romans 12:15), it does not add, “unless God caused the weeping.” Job’s comforters would have done better to weep with Job than talk so much. That does not change when we discover that Job’s suffering was ultimately from God. No, it is right to weep with those who suffer. Pain is pain, no matter who causes it. We are all sinners. Empathy flows not from the causes of pain, but the company of pain. And we are all in it together.
Finally, Christ calls us to show mercy to those who suffer, even if they do not deserve it.
That is the meaning of mercy—undeserved help. “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you” (Luke 6:27). Therefore, pray earnestly for Scott Purser and his team as they investigate the best way that the Global Diaconate can mercifully respond with the love of Christ to the calamity around the Indian Ocean.
In the merciful hands of Almighty God,
Pastor John
http://www.desiringgod.org/library/fresh_words/2004/122904.html
----
Anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of the fatalities are children. And notice that John doesn't say that the kids are automatically saved either. Just remember that. Gotta give it to him for consistency with his beliefs...
"I've been converted three times. The first was to traditional Christianity; the second to honesty and the third was to the Love of God and man (humanity) The third was the real conversion. The first two were preliminary."
--Nels Ferre, a theologian speaking of his spiritual journey with the Triune God
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 8:11 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
quote:
Originally posted by Laika
quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
Those who died are not greater sinners than those who lived. They are just the ones for who patience ran out and they are now to be held to account as to how they lived and where they found their righteousness.
What kind of 'patience' "runs out" on infants? God suffered their iniquity for days and days, He couldn't bear it anymore?
Satan is responsible for this wanton destruction, God is working through us to bring 'mercy' and relief to the survivors. Thus we are not contradicting ourselves, as you are.
Never did Jesus bring a storm to destroy people, but He did calm a storm. That should be our example, not some "hidden mysteries".
Were the infants of the flood or Canaan any more wicked than those of Thailand? Were they anymore innocent? Where is your proof that they were different at all?
God revealed that there was a total lack of righteousness in both cases. Where's YOUR revelation about this tsunami? "Hidden"?
Logically, your thesis is bankrupt.
You've not shown how we are not opposing God and suppressing His body count by bringing 'mercy'.
Scripturally, your thesis is bankrupt.
You've not shown any mass, wanton destruction done by Jesus, the very image of the living God.
You've presented two examples where God revealed the reason for total annihilation, total absence of righteousness. Yet you've not presented revelation for this tsunami.
inside you the time moves and she don't fade
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 1/4/2005 8:17 AM (GMT -6) | | This is also the Jesus that reveals the Father.
behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
When the Lamb broke the seventh seal:
- and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
- and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed
- and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.
- a third of mankind was killed by these three plagues
Spen Lake
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 8:20 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
This is also the Jesus that reveals the Father.
behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
When the Lamb broke the seventh seal:
- and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
- and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed
- and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.
- a third of mankind was killed by these three plagues
The four horsemen of the Apocalypse? Which one is Jesus?
You're losing sight of the goal, focus, focus.
Your answer then is, the fourth seal has been broken?
inside you the time moves and she don't fade
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 1/4/2005 8:26 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Laika
quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
This is also the Jesus that reveals the Father.
behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
When the Lamb broke the seventh seal:
- and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
- and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed
- and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.
- a third of mankind was killed by these three plagues
The four horsemen of the Apocalypse? Which one is Jesus?
You're losing sight of the goal, focus, focus.
Your answer then is, the fourth seal has been broken?
Look at who opens the seals and tells them, "Come." They are locked in the scroll and unable to come without the permission of the Lamb. All the destruction brought by the seals is ordained and loosed by the Lamb of God, Jesus.
Spen Lake
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