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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/31/2004 3:23 PM (GMT -6) |   | Thanks, J.
No, I don't plan to go on.
.
But if you will allow an observation, when I did LOOK the second section was anti-determinist. That means that it presumed that anything not "OV" is "determinist." My Arminian minister brotherinlaw complained this weekend that "OV" advocates SAY that anyone Arminian is "OV." And that is not, not, not true.
Further, not everything non-Arminian can be described "determinist."
What those on this site NEED, and what it seems they will evade is honest discussion bringing dialog to face what I've just said above.
Too bad.
But, for you J. Blessings on you and your family.
PoW | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/31/2004 5:31 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 12/31/2004 6:33 PM (GMT -6) | | Hello all,
I don't understand why the new board has to be less then what we have here. An OV only section is cool but that is only one small piece of the big picture. I don't even understand why the new URL name has OPENVIEW in it.
Is this site shutting down because Tom has grown weary of determinist, where in the heck would the amusement come from?
Peace,
Mark | | Back to Top | | |
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Mayflower
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 445
| Posted 12/31/2004 6:56 PM (GMT -6) | | .
May God bless & protect you, PoW.
I have sincerely enjoyed coming to know you...
I will miss your presence.
Peace & blessings,
<><
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Mayflower
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 445
| Posted 12/31/2004 6:59 PM (GMT -6) | | Post Script:
By the way -- I love your beautiful pictures.
Thank you, Brother. You have brightened my life.
<><
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 12/31/2004 10:17 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel
Thanks, J.
No, I don't plan to go on.
.
But if you will allow an observation, when I did LOOK the second section was anti-determinist. That means that it presumed that anything not "OV" is "determinist." My Arminian minister brotherinlaw complained this weekend that "OV" advocates SAY that anyone Arminian is "OV." And that is not, not, not true.
Further, not everything non-Arminian can be described "determinist."
What those on this site NEED, and what it seems they will evade is honest discussion bringing dialog to face what I've just said above.
Too bad.
But, for you J. Blessings on you and your family.
PoW
Thank you POW. I'll miss you.
May your journey with Him grow increasingly sweeter. My journey with the open view has had a good beginning, and I am looking forward to so many new adventures with the Savior in the coming year. There are so many treasures that lay waiting to be discovered. The friendships here have been some of those treasures.
If you do visit, or read, or post on the other board...I'll be SoulPurpose, not moon_river_j
Moon_river_j has paid her tribute to her mother, and it's time to move on.
God Bless you POW, and I wish you so much more than a happy new year!
Jo-Anne (Soul Purpose)
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 1/1/2005 4:58 PM (GMT -6) | | POW; your words remind me of the song by Linda Ronstadt and written by the (late great) Warren Zevon..."Poor Poor Pitiful Me..."  | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/2/2005 4:50 AM (GMT -6) | | spakenheart: Is this site shutting down because Tom has grown weary of determinist, where in the heck would the amusement come from?
Tom: If we didn’t have the determinists (and ourselves sometimes!) for amusement, we’d have PoW!  But I don’t have anything to do with the site shutting down of course.
Jo-Anne, I admire you're patience and kindness. But somebody needs to actually reply to PoW's inaccuracies.
PoW: My Arminian minister brotherinlaw complained this weekend that "OV" advocates SAY that anyone Arminian is "OV." And that is not, not, not true. Further, not everything non-Arminian can be described "determinist."
Tom: Of course it’s false that anyone Arminian is OV. You’re brother-in-law must have the bad luck to have met and spoken with only idiot OVers (of whom there are many, along with misinformed determinists, Arminians, Orthodox, and others). I’m sorry for him. But I hope, PoW, that you would have set him straight on this by pointing out that you personally know of many OVers who recognize that not all Arminians are OVers, open theists who acknowledge that one CAN reject both theological determinism AND the OV, who know that everything not Arminian isn’t necessarily determinist. I can’t think of anything that’s been recognized more often and more openly by people on this site than this. That you said nothing to correct your brother and instead agree with him is amazing. You have been sleep-walking the entire time you’ve been a member here.
PoW: What those on this site NEED, and what it seems they will evade is honest discussion bringing dialog to face what I've just said above. Too bad.
Tom: You’ve managed to produce THE most inaccurate and ridiculous comment you’ve yet made with which to go out.
.
Again, there’s no more honest concession that’s been made by open viewers on this site than that one can reject both theological determinism AND the OV, that NOT all Arminians are OVers, and that everything not Arminian isn’t necessarily determinist.
The honest discussion you claim we open theists have and will continue to evade (what an insulting slam that is) is everywhere available on this site for inspection by anyone who cares to see it.
Take care,
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 1/2/2005 8:59 AM (GMT -6) | | Tom: "...set him straight on this..."
PoW: Seeing that (1) some fairly recent posts by others here, , coinciding (2) with my brother-in-law's observations, and adding (3) the false-start on the 'other site' makes that challenge I posted worthwhile.
YOU have fulfilled that task, for now, with your admonitions that de-validate those generalizations, to "set...straight".
GOOD WORK, Tom!
I hope that you will deputise yourself to keep that up in my absence.
Take, care!
PoW
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 1/2/2005 9:05 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel
My Arminian minister brotherinlaw complained this weekend that "OV" advocates SAY that anyone Arminian is "OV." And that is not, not, not true.
My Arminian brotherinlaw is a Evangelical Protestant minister (already has an M. Div.) who is now in a doctoral program.
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 1/2/2005 2:02 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel
Thanks, J.
No, I don't plan to go on.
.
But if you will allow an observation, when I did LOOK the second section was anti-determinist. That means that it presumed that anything not "OV" is "determinist." My Arminian minister brotherinlaw complained this weekend that "OV" advocates SAY that anyone Arminian is "OV." And that is not, not, not true.
Further, not everything non-Arminian can be described "determinist."
What those on this site NEED, and what it seems they will evade is honest discussion bringing dialog to face what I've just said above.
Too bad.
But, for you J. Blessings on you and your family.
PoW
Thank you POW. I'll miss you.
May your journey with Him grow increasingly sweeter. My journey with the open view has had a good beginning, and I am looking forward to so many new adventures with the Savior in the coming year. There are so many treasures that lay waiting to be discovered. The friendships here have been some of those treasures.
If you do visit, or read, or post on the other board...I'll be SoulPurpose, not moon_river_j
Moon_river_j has paid her tribute to her mother, and it's time to move on.
God Bless you POW, and I wish you so much more than a happy new year!
Jo-Anne (Soul Purpose)
Thanks, moon_river_j! | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 1/2/2005 3:49 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by TGB
spakenheart: Is this site shutting down because Tom has grown weary of determinist, where in the heck would the amusement come from?
Tom: If we didn’t have the determinists (and ourselves sometimes!) for amusement, we’d have PoW! But I don’t have anything to do with the site shutting down of course.
Jo-Anne, I admire you're patience and kindness. But somebody needs to actually reply to PoW's inaccuracies.
PoW: My Arminian minister brotherinlaw complained this weekend that "OV" advocates SAY that anyone Arminian is "OV." And that is not, not, not true. Further, not everything non-Arminian can be described "determinist."
Tom: Of course it’s false that anyone Arminian is OV. You’re brother-in-law must have the bad luck to have met and spoken with only idiot OVers (of whom there are many, along with misinformed determinists, Arminians, Orthodox, and others). I’m sorry for him. But I hope, PoW, that you would have set him straight on this by pointing out that you personally know of many OVers who recognize that not all Arminians are OVers, open theists who acknowledge that one CAN reject both theological determinism AND the OV, who know that everything not Arminian isn’t necessarily determinist. I can’t think of anything that’s been recognized more often and more openly by people on this site than this. That you said nothing to correct your brother and instead agree with him is amazing. You have been sleep-walking the entire time you’ve been a member here.
PoW: What those on this site NEED, and what it seems they will evade is honest discussion bringing dialog to face what I've just said above. Too bad.
Tom: You’ve managed to produce THE most inaccurate and ridiculous comment you’ve yet made with which to go out.
.
Again, there’s no more honest concession that’s been made by open viewers on this site than that one can reject both theological determinism AND the OV, that NOT all Arminians are OVers, and that everything not Arminian isn’t necessarily determinist.
The honest discussion you claim we open theists have and will continue to evade (what an insulting slam that is) is everywhere available on this site for inspection by anyone who cares to see it.
Take care,
Tom
Tom,
Perhaps when I am as well-versed in open theism, or even in theology, as others are, I'll be able to debate, or challenge - the way you, and others do. I know that this is what the board is about. For me, it has been about discovery, and about learning from others, learning more about the Father, and learning how to apply all of this to my walk with Him. I can honestly say that I have learned from everyone, and that I am thankful for you all (y'all...as most of you would say!) And, I'll miss those who don't carry on, but look forward to meeting new people, and continuing to learn as I go. I'm thankful for your patience with me - those of you who are the "real" theologians here. I may very well qualify as one of the "idiot" ov'ers that you speak of, but I'm growing! I'm teachable, and I'll keep on asking questions, and listening, and hopefully encouraging along the way.
I know that there will be others who will correct me (gently I hope) when I'm off base.
God Bless...catch you all on the fli...the next board!
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/3/2005 3:01 AM (GMT -6) | | Jo-Anne: Tom, Perhaps when I am as well-versed in open theism, or even in theology, as others are, I'll be able to debate, or challenge - the way you, and others do. I know that this is what the board is about. For me, it has been about discovery, and about learning from others, learning more about the Father, and learning how to apply all of this to my walk with Him.
Tom: You're right on the money, Jo-Anne. You do fine and are a great example.
PoW: Seeing that (1) some fairly recent posts by others here, , coinciding (2) with my brother-in-law's observations, and adding (3) the false-start on the 'other site' makes that challenge I posted worthwhile.
Tom: Worthwhile for whom? For what? I don't at all see how. Fairly recent posts by a few in comparison to thousands over the course of our history here? Your brother-in-law's observations justify your generalization? But the generalization was ABOUT justifying his comments. A false-start on another site? That makes your challenge worthwhile? On the contrary, you've been here basically from the start. You know the truth regarding your brother-in-law's comments. You should have told your brother-in-law, "Well, that's not accurate Bro. You know, neither open theism as a view, nor the vast majority of open theists make the mistake of thinking all Arminians are open theists." How you could have been here all the time you have and not say this to your brother-in-law, and on top of that to come back here and accuse open theists accross the board of doing just what your brother-in-law falsely claims they do, and finally--to top it off--to say we've been and will continue to be dishonest in our dialogue, is beyond me.
PoW: I hope that you will deputise yourself to keep that up in my absence.
Tom: Nobody needs to be deputized, PoW. It's not about that. You basically insulted us (open theists) all, and instead of apologizing you whitewash it over.
Why don't you try something new: apologize.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 1/3/2005 8:16 AM (GMT -6) | | | Tom: A hearty AMEN! POW should know better. | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 1/4/2005 1:24 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/4/2005 2:36 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 1/4/2005 5:21 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 1/5/2005 2:06 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 1/5/2005 1:52 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Laika
Fare-well jo-anne, we'll always have Haines Junction.
I THINK THAT'S MY FAVORITE POST OF YOURS, LAIKA!
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 1/5/2005 2:00 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by TGB
...neither open theism as a view, nor the vast majority of open theists...
Truth: Percentages weren't important to him (my brotherinlaw). And that issue is about HIM and his experiences; and not about you Tom.
quote:
Originally posted by TGB
...open theists accross the board of doing just what your brother-in-law falsely claims they do...
Truth: My brotherinlaw's contention is NOT false.
Truth: And I did not say that "across the board" made such posts here. I just said that it has been done here in the last month.
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 1/5/2005 8:46 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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