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|  One Love Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003 Total Posts : 13888 | Posted 1/23/2005 4:13 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Umm...
For all y'all who dig Dr. Dobson...wow. Still want to keep your subscription to Focus on the Family?
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 |  GodsWarrior Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003 Total Posts : 6 | Posted 1/23/2005 4:33 PM (GMT -6) |   | I don't get it Man!!
This is, straight up, ridiculous!!
When are ultra-conservative Christians gonna wake up?
Chad T. Sieleni-Smith | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 1/23/2005 5:58 PM (GMT -6) |   | |
It’s quite ironic that the video in question is about promoting tolerance. Which one of the following two quotes seems to be more pretentious and sarcastic?
MSNBC said...
They’re giving Jesus Christ a bad name.
For a lot of people, this might be unforgivable. But I’m more compassionate than most. I would like to help the CRACKPOT Christians redeem themselves. After all, they’re human, or at least they started out that way. Guiding these CRACKPOT Christians along the path of righteousness will be a Herculean task, but as the Bible tells us, miracles do happen. How can I preach tolerance and then turn my back on those who need it most?
The first step for the CRACKPOT Christians is to accept that they have a problem. I know programs exist that can reprogram the insufferably preachy and transform them back into normal people like the rest of us. They have to get the message that taking the Good Book, living by the parts they agree with and disregarding the parts they don’t, is a learned behavior and can be cured. They need to be taught that looking for secret messages where none exist is an urge that should be resisted.
Maybe they could use an instructional video.
Michael Ventre lives in Los Angeles and is a regular contributor to MSNBC.com.
Focus on the family said...
Question: Why is Dr. Dobson objecting to the distribution of a video featuring such popular children's characters as SpongeBob SquarePants?
Answer: From the outset, let's be clear that this issue is not about objections to any specific cartoon characters. Instead, Dr. Dobson is concerned that these popular animated personalities are being exploited by an organization that's determined to promote the acceptance of homosexuality among our nation's youth.
We applaud the ideal of championing to children the value and dignity of every human life as well as respect for our differences. What we vehemently object to is using these beloved characters to help advance an agenda that's beyond the comprehension of 6 and 7 year-old children, not to mention morally offensive to millions of moms and dads.
The video in question is slated to be distributed to 61,000 public and private elementary schools throughout the United States. Where it is shown, schoolchildren will be left with the impression that their teachers are offering their endorsement of the values and agenda associated with the video's sponsor. While some of the goals associated with this organization are noble in nature, their inclusion of the reference to "sexual identity" within their "tolerance pledge" is not only unnecessary, but it crosses a moral line.
We believe that it is the privilege of parents to decide how, when and where it is appropriate to introduce their children to these types of sensitive issues. The distribution of this video trumps the authority of mothers and fathers and leaves it in the hands of strangers whose standards may very well be different than the children they teach.
By calling it to light this video and its affiliation with this larger organization, we are attempting to do for parents what their busy lives often prevent them from doing themselves--connecting the dots. http://family.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/family.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=17669
What about these two quotes:
Meph said...For all y'all who dig Dr. Dobson...wow. Still want to keep your subscript ion to Focus on the Family?
GodsWarrior said... When are ultra-conservative Christians gonna wake up?
Post Edited (sparknheart) : 1/23/2005 8:37:09 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  One Love Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003 Total Posts : 13888 | Posted 1/23/2005 8:01 PM (GMT -6) |   |
-----------------------------------------------
Tolerance is a personal decision that comes from a belief that every person is a treasure. I believe that America's diversity is its strength. I also recognize that ignorance, insensitivity and bigotry can turn that diversity into a source of prejudice and discrimination.
To help keep diversity a wellspring of strength and make America a better place for all, I pledge to have respect for people whose abilities, beliefs, culture, race, sexual identity or other characteristics are different from my own.
-------------------------------------------
The Southern Poverty Law Center talking about the Christians attacking it:
Jan. 21, 2005 -- Focus on the Family and the American Family Association, national conservative Christian groups who oppose equal rights for gays and lesbians, recently attacked a video that features characters beloved by children.
The three-minute video was produced by the We Are Family Foundation, an organization founded by music producer Nile Rodgers in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Rogers wrote the 1979 disco hit "We Are Family," sung by Sister Sledge and popular throughout the 1980s.
The conservative groups object to a tolerance pledge on the Foundation's website that includes sexual identity as a difference that should be respected. The pledge was provided by the Southern Poverty Law Center, which includes it as a "Declaration of Tolerance" in its 101 Tools for Tolerance handbook. The pledge is also posted on the Center's Tolerance.org website.
In November, Rodgers brought popular figures from the world of children's television together and recorded their version of "We Are Family," using more than 100 characters like Clifford the Big Red Dog, Barney and SpongeBob SquarePants. The video, which promotes the importance of togetherness as embodied in the word "family," will be distributed to 61,000 public and private elementary schools in March.
Focus leader James C. Dobson claims that the video promotes a "pro-homosexual agenda." However, the video does not mention anything about sexual identity, and the Center's pledge is available only through the Foundation's website.
Paul Batura, Dobson's assistant, said Focus on the Family stands by its assertions. "We see the video as an insidious means by which the organization is manipulating and potentially brainwashing kids," he told The New York Times.
The We Are Family Foundation's mission is similar to goals of the Center's tolerance education programs: celebrating people's common humanity by creating and supporting programs that inspire and educate individuals of all ages about diversity, understanding, respect and multiculturalism.
The brouhaha has created intense media scrutiny, catapulting the "We Are Family" video into the nation's eye and providing publicity that it likely would never have gotten otherwise, said We Are Family Foundation president Nancy Hunt. Its creator, Rodgers, was on this morning's edition of the popular Today Show and is scheduled to appear on several other national television shows.
Read more about the controversy over children's television and the alleged promotion of a "gay agenda" from Working for Change.
-----------------------------
And...oh, MY. Let's touch the fear button here...
It is as unprecedented as it is cunning, using all the right words and happiest faces in an attempt to speak directly to the nation’s children about "tolerance and diversity." Once again, of course, those ideas include homosexual advocacy.
On November 10, a video remake of the song, "We Are Family," was created using the voices and images of over 100 beloved children’s TV characters. On March 11, 2005, the video performance will air simultaneously on the Disney Channel, Nickelodeon and PBS. A similar video aired on those networks in 2002.
The nation’s children will be all too familiar with the characters on the video, incuding those from Arthur, Barney, Blue’s Clues, Bob the Builder, The Book of Pooh, Clifford the Big Red Dog, Dora the Explorer, Jimmy Neutron, Kim Possible, Lilo & Stitch: The Series, Little Mermaid, Madeline, The Magic School Bus, The Muppet Show, Rugrats, Sesame Street and SpongeBob Squarepants.
Also in March, the DVD of the song will be distributed to 61,000 public and private elementary schools across the country. It will be accompanied by a teacher’s guide, designed by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL, www.adl.org), a group that, among other things, promotes the normalization of homosexuality.
Driving the project is the We Are Family Foundation (WAFF, www.wearefamilyfoundation.org), which states on its Web site that the song was remixed "to speak the message of diversity and tolerance to elementary school children nationwide."
On the surface, the project may appear to be a worthwhile attempt to foster greater understanding of cultural differences among all Americans. However, a short step beneath the surface reveals that one of the differences being celebrated is homosexuality.
WAFF was founded as a non-profit organization in 2002 by Nile Rodgers, who wrote the song "We Are Family" with his late music partner, Bernard Edwards. The WAFF site says that the group "celebrates our common humanity and the vision of a global family …."
The Web site is filled with pro-homosexual materials. A "Tolerance Pledge," for example, created by Tolerance.org, part of the leftist Southern Poverty Law Center, encourages signees to pledge respect for homosexuals and work against "ignorance, insensitivity and bigotry."
(Meph's Note: Ok. It says that the web site is "FILLED" with pro-homosexual material. Please go BACK to the WAFF website and see what you see! If I didn't know better I would think that they were counting on people accidently going to THIS site: http://www.waf.org/ Think about it. Even the site ITSELF now has a DISCLAIMER because so many people have been mistakingly going to THAT website instead of the REAL one! Now, if anyone with a SANE MIND looks at the We Are Family Foundation site, they will NOT see a site that is "FILLED" with pro-homosexual material. I sense nonsense afoot!)
Most Christians are now aware of what those code words mean, said AFA Chairman Don Wildmon. "If you are a person who accepts the homosexual lifestyle, then you are tolerant," he said. "If you don’t, then you are a bigot who is motivated by ignorance and hate."
One of the teacher’s guides available online at the WAFF Web site is called "Writing for Change: Raising Awareness of Difference, Power, & Discrimination." Full of politically correct lessons on feminism, it is also a primer for teachers who want to indoctrinate children regarding sexual orientation issues.
Lessons include such topics as "Talking about Being ‘Out’" and "Uncovering Attitudes about Sexual Orientation." In these lesson plans, teachers are taught how to introduce students to "the concepts of homophobia and compulsory heterosexuality."
According to the teacher’s guide, children should be taught to reject the idea "that women are ‘naturally’ or innately drawn sexually and emotionally toward men, and men toward women," or that heterosexuality is normal and should be the only model for marriage.
Students are expected to be influenced by the lesson plans. One of the follow-up questions asks the kids: "How will understanding these definitions change your thinking about compulsory heterosexuality and homophobia?"
The ADL has partnered with WAFF on the "We Are Family" project in other ways. The WAFF site includes the ADL’s pamphlet, "Close the Book on Hate," a diversity tome that normalizes homosexuality. It also contains a reading list for children and adults that includes such homosexual favorites as Daddy’s Roommate, Growing Up Gay, Heather Has Two Mommies, Is It a Choice?, Two Teenagers in Twenty, and What If Someone I Know Is Gay?
Wildmon said it is difficult taking a stand against such projects. "Nobody I know has a problem with teaching children to be respectful and tolerant. It is wrong, however, to use such concepts to open the door to a secondary discussion about a controversial subject like homosexuality," he said.
For those people who find it difficult to understand AFA’s objection, Wildmon said they should imagine a scenario in which the shoe is on the other foot. "What if these television characters were singing about personality, but then when children went to the Web site, or when the teacher opened up the accompanying lesson plan, the topic was Christianity?" He said. "A lot of people would be angry with that kind of approach. And that’s why many Christians will be upset with the strategy taken by the We Are Family Foundation."
While the March launch of the school project was still a few months away, Wildmon advised parents to be on the lookout to see if the DVD, teacher’s guide, and other WAFF materials find their way into their local schools.
______________________________________
I feel like I'm watching "Teletubbies Nonsense 2005"
Notice the "slippery slope-give-them-an-inch-they'll-take-a-mile" ideology. Now, this is my deal. Even IF Christians like Dobson would want to be concerned about this OBVIOUSLY nefarious plot, was there NO better way to deal with this situation...than to basically LABEL the WHOLE THING a "pro-homosexual video"??? Is there nothing ELSE he or American Family Association could have done to make encourage parents to be aware of this whole thing...WITHOUT stooping to slippery-slope, conspiricy theory type mish-mash? Seriously! Instead of AFFIRMING the effort and the work of the WAFF project, while having healthy skepticism about some of the potential issues, and making those concerns known in a way that reflects well upon the Body of Christ, they basically go on a friggin WITCH-HUNT...and bring all this negative attention to the Christian message.
Does anyone really want to argue that Focus On the Family and American Family Association truly handled this situation in the best way possible...with godly wisdom and heart? Come on. On one hand, they want to talk about the "strategy" of WAFF as possibly being nefarious...while at the SAME time using incendiary pejorations and fear-mongering speak.
Sheesh. If anyone thinks that me calling Dobson's and AFA's inflammatory actions into question as being liberal...
Then to HELL with it. I'll be a friggin liberal, then...
Post Edited (MephEternal) : 1/23/2005 7:05:03 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
   |  JEE Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2004 Total Posts : 1466 | Posted 1/24/2005 5:30 PM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
 |  Violin for God Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!

Date Joined Dec 2004 Total Posts : 690 | Posted 1/24/2005 7:58 PM (GMT -6) |   | |
I like what Sparknheart wrote. Good point. The quote I must say I agree with is this:
"While some of the goals associated with this organization are noble in nature, their inclusion of the reference to "sexual identity" within their "tolerance pledge" is not only unnecessary, but it crosses a moral line.While some of the goals associated with this organization are noble in nature, their inclusion of the reference to "sexual identity" within their "tolerance pledge" is not only unnecessary, but it crosses a moral line."
In other words, is that added qualifier necessary to the basic point, to respect others even if they're different from you? Why did they feel it necessary to add "sexual identity" to their tolerance pledge? That still has yet to be addressed.
But on to good ole Bob. They (either AFA or FotF) seem to have been clear that this isn't intended to be a Tinky Winky recap, though it seems it's being interpreted that way...especially by the media that LOVES to have their own witch-hunts (don't they?). After watching the MSN clip, it seems that either the AFA or the FotF may have just made a mistake and the media jumped all over them for it.
I think it's quite possible that the AFA or FotF could have made a mistake & jumped the gun in bringing their concerns about the video on the air. Let's have a show of hands here, who here has never made a misjudgment in their lives?
Dobson has indeed done a LOT of good things throughout the years... and you're going to "cancel your subscriptions" over this? And sure, there may be other things with which you disagree... but consider weighing everything he's done. His ministry has helped thousands of people, their marriages and their families, kids, adults, people calling up the ministry as a last resort (ie ready to commit suicide).
And the thing about "ultra-conservatives waking up"... did you make that statement because they don't have the same point of view as you? Or do you think they're all clueless? (And what's "ultra" in this context anyway?)
I mean, really...
Post Edited (Violin for God) : 1/24/2005 7:03:37 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  GodsWarrior Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003 Total Posts : 6 | Posted 1/24/2005 10:22 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Question: "And the thing about "ultra-conservatives waking up"... did you make that statement because they don't have the same point of view as you? Or do you think they're all clueless? (And what's "ultra" in this context anyway?)"
Answer: I admit to taking more of a liberal stance on political issues. I do not mean to sound like a jerk, but it is so disheartening when things like this happen.
This is constantly happening and it is giving Christianity a bad name.
Why do far-right Christian organizations find it necessary to complain about EVERYTHING????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
We, as Christians, are not the "moral police" of the world! Sure we have a duty to set an example, but it seems to always occur in the form of complaining(word), not deed!
Our main purpose is to show LOVE to EVERYONE!!!
Yes we need to maintain our convictions, but we need to do it in a LOVING way and stop pointing out the flaws of the rest of the world.
1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
8Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. Chad T. Sieleni-Smith
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 |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 1/24/2005 11:46 PM (GMT -6) |   |
GodsWarrior said...
Why do far-right Christian organizations find it necessary to complain about EVERYTHING????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
We, as Christians, are not the "moral police" of the world! Sure we have a duty to set an example, but it seems to always occur in the form of complaining(word), not deed!
Our main purpose is to show LOVE to EVERYONE!!!
Yes we need to maintain our convictions, but we need to do it in a LOVING way and stop pointing out the flaws of the rest of the world.
1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
It sounds like we have a new sheriff in town with a mission to clean up the corrupted precinct. It’s always been a problem, who’s going to police the police, who will judge the judgers.
Sorry GodsWarrior, I’m just being facetious. Peace, Mark
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 |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 1/24/2005 11:59 PM (GMT -6) |   |
Violin for God said...
I like what Sparknheart wrote. Good point. The quote I must say I agree with is this:
"While some of the goals associated with this organization are noble in nature, their inclusion of the reference to "sexual identity" within their "tolerance pledge" is not only unnecessary, but it crosses a moral line.While some of the goals associated with this organization are noble in nature, their inclusion of the reference to "sexual identity" within their "tolerance pledge" is not only unnecessary, but it crosses a moral line."
In other words, is that added qualifier necessary to the basic point, to respect others even if they're different from you? Why did they feel it necessary to add "sexual identity" to their tolerance pledge? That still has yet to be addressed.
Thanks for the encouragement, VFG.
So often it seems we go from one extreme or the other. I find It toug trying not to be pulled too far to the left or too far to the right. It's hard, I’m doing all I can to just try and stay God-Centered.
Shalom,
Mark Post Edited (sparknheart) : 1/24/2005 11:03:08 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 1/25/2005 12:07 AM (GMT -6) |   |
JEE said...If each person possesses unsurpassable worth, then everybody is really worth the same thing, and "unsurpassable" becomes a rather diluted and meaningless term. Everybody's special, just like everybody else.
It’s all about ascribing unsurpassable worth in that very moment of time, an ever increasing scale of love, trailing off into eternity.
Shine on Bro,
Mark
Matthew 11:28-30 (NRSV) "Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
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 |  Violin for God Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!

Date Joined Dec 2004 Total Posts : 690 | Posted 1/25/2005 1:24 AM (GMT -6) |   |
GodsWarrior said... Question: "And the thing about "ultra-conservatives waking up"... did you make that statement because they don't have the same point of view as you? Or do you think they're all clueless? (And what's "ultra" in this context anyway?)"
Answer: I admit to taking more of a liberal stance on political issues. I do not mean to sound like a jerk, but it is so disheartening when things like this happen.
VFG: I wasn't implying anything about your character. What I wanted to point out was that you seem to be name-calling and then discrediting with, as far as I can tell, no real good reason other than their point of view differing from yours.
GW: This is constantly happening and it is giving Christianity a bad name.
VFG: Who is really giving the bad name? The media, that is eager to twist the truth for a good emotionally-charged story, or FotF/AFA? Of course, you see where I stand in this issue.
GW: Why do far-right Christian organizations find it necessary to complain about EVERYTHING????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
VFG: It's important for you to understand... you're complaining about their complaining. (And neither you nor they complain about EVERYTHING, right? If they were complaining about everything, they wouldn't be serving so many people.)
GW: We, as Christians, are not the "moral police" of the world!
VFG: Nobody said they are being the "moral police". On that same subject, do you think Dobson is being immoral? (I believe you'd answer yes) So why are you policing their morals?
GW: Our main purpose is to show LOVE to EVERYONE!!!
VFG: I fully agree...and we all fail at that. That's one reason for me that God's grace is so good.
GW:1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. ...
VFG: I heard a statistic a long time ago... Did you know that those verses are now the most quoted verses in the Bible? Guess what the most quoted verse was about 50-70 years ago ...
"For God so loved the world..."
We need to focus more on the grace, glory and love of our Father... and less on the faults of our brothers and sisters. I'm dealing with this issue too... this last sermon at our church struck me hard in this area.
Here's the thing that struck me (I thought it was very profound): When we look at the ground, we can't see the sky. When our eyes are pointed downward looking at others, we can't look up to God at the same time.
Here's the other thing that struck me: (To everyone reading this also)
How do you view the pharisees of Jesus' time? Do we look down at them? (Naw, I'd never be as judgmental as them! Thank you Lord that I'm not like that Pharisee that is standing next to me.) Or do we see them as people also loved by God and in as much of a desperate need of a Savior as we are?
Post Edited (Violin for God) : 1/25/2005 12:29:27 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  JEE Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2004 Total Posts : 1466 | Posted 1/25/2005 2:01 AM (GMT -6) |   | Mark said: It’s all about ascribing unsurpassable worth in that very moment of time, an ever increasing scale of love, trailing off into eternity.
Hi Mark,
Only GOD has unsurpassable worth; all other creatures DERIVE their worth from God, and their worth is only meaningful in relative terms to Him. Also, there can be no possible "increasing scale," if the ultimate superlative "UNsurpassable" has already been used. This I would think would be quite self-evident to anyone.
Violin for God: I can't say how much I appreciate your point of view on this. Refreshing. Where have you been all this time? 
Blessings to all,
John | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Truth Aficionado Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003 Total Posts : 1544 | Posted 1/25/2005 4:30 PM (GMT -6) |   |
JEE said...Mark said: It’s all about ascribing unsurpassable worth in that very moment of time, an ever increasing scale of love, trailing off into eternity. Hi Mark,
Only GOD has unsurpassable worth; all other creatures DERIVE their worth from God, and their worth is only meaningful in relative terms to Him. Also, there can be no possible "increasing scale," if the ultimate superlative "UNsurpassable" has already been used. This I would think would be quite self-evident to anyone.
Okay John, Getting off topic a little bit, but here goes.
Life should not be a stagnating walk with the Lord. We are either moving closer towards God, or away from him each day in our preparation for death. Hopefully, as we grow/stretch in Christ’s love each day, we are called to reflect that love towards others. It’s unsurpassable at that moment or point in time, since it’s all the goodness we can give at the time, because it's all we have received from the goodness of God to date.
It’s true, only God is the absolute source of good, without Him we are nothing. God created us by blowing life into nothing but dirt. But, he also created us in his image, the imago Dai. With that said, we all have worth to God, enough for his son to die for us. Being in Christ, it is our responsibility to reflect Christ’s love to the least of those. It does not necessarily mean we are to tolerate man’s sin; “tolerance” towards sin has NOT ever been revealed in God character. With that said we are not God and can not pass judgment on our fellow man's heart or intention. But on the flip side, it wouldn’t be in love to leave our fellow brothers/sisters dead in their transgressions either. I agree with Violin For God, look up to God and not down on others. In doing so, I hope we can reflect God’s unsurpassable worth to each other.
If you like, you can ask Greg for a better explanation, I think he coined the phrase.
I gave you my best interpretation and I can’t “surpass” it at this time,
Mark Post Edited (sparknheart) : 1/25/2005 5:45:46 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  JEE Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2004 Total Posts : 1466 | Posted 1/25/2005 5:37 PM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
 |  One Love Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003 Total Posts : 13888 | Posted 1/25/2005 6:40 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Ok...
Question:
There are a number of people (Christian and non-Christian, liberal and conservative, pro-Dobson and anti-Dobson) who believe that, if nothing else, Dr. Dobson made a gaffe of sorts and overspoke, particularly in broadly labeling the upcoming WAFF effort as a "pro-homosexual agenda." Dr. Dobson has VERY signficant influence, not only in the Christian community but outside that community as well
Do you think that Dr. Dobson should OWN UP to that misstep...and THEN, clearly articulate his concern regarding the some of the possible ideological stances that organizations supporting the effort MAY have?
Should Dr. Dobson take responsibility for his mistake?
"I've been converted three times. The first was to traditional Christianity; the second to honesty and the third was to the Love of God and man (humanity) The third was the real conversion. The first two were preliminary." --Nels Ferre, a theologian speaking of his spiritual journey with the Triune God | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Violin for God Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!

Date Joined Dec 2004 Total Posts : 690 | Posted 1/25/2005 7:05 PM (GMT -6) |   | | GodsWarrior, please realize I do appreciate your input here. I've been dealing with the same issue with myself of being critical of others, and even being prideful, etc. My response was not to harm in any way, but to help you see yourself. God bless!
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 |  Violin for God Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!

Date Joined Dec 2004 Total Posts : 690 | Posted 1/25/2005 7:08 PM (GMT -6) |   |
JEE, Ross & Spark: Thanks for your encouraging responses.  Really, to me it's very humbling (honestly it's hard to write that because it seems prideful, but I wanted to let y'all know the feedback is appreciated!) BTW, JEE, where have I been? Oooh... going crazy!... Student teaching and all the confusing hoop-jumping stuff it entails! So y'all won't see me very much around here for about the next 4 months... I need prayer for my stress level! | | Back to Top | | |
 |  GodsWarrior Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003 Total Posts : 6 | Posted 1/25/2005 8:22 PM (GMT -6) |   | | "With regard to the thought-provoking bumper sticker shown above: Does God love those he damns to hell? God has plainly revealed in scripture that he "kills and makes alive," and that even in the New Testament era, he reserves the right (and uses it at times) to in some cases execute those who break his moral law. Does God love them when he carries out his sentence of death upon them? What's more, does God love the damned while he tosses them into the Lake of Fire?"
What an awesome question! Does God still love those he condemns? Not a clue, intuitively I would guess, no, but who knows?. Does anyone know of any scripture that talks about this?
I think your fatal flaw, though, is the fact that God is not damning everyone in this world to hell that has been killed as a result of our actions.
We, as a country are killing whoever we choose.
We are acting as the judge of the world.
We cannot be so cavalier and assume, "God's blessing is upon us, so we can do whatever we want.
Love is the goal.
And VIOLIN: No harm done. My only point has been, and will always be, Love. Is what Dr. Dobson doing out of love? or out of dislike for a certain group of people? That is my only concern.
God Bless.
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 |  JEE Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2004 Total Posts : 1466 | Posted 1/25/2005 11:15 PM (GMT -6) |   | With regard to the thought-provoking bumper sticker shown above: Does God love those he damns to hell? God has plainly revealed in scripture that he "kills and makes alive," and that even in the New Testament era, he reserves the right (and uses it at times) to in some cases execute those who break his moral law. Does God love them when he carries out his sentence of death upon them? What's more, does God love the damned while he tosses them into the Lake of Fire?"
God's Warrior said: What an awesome question! Does God still love those he condemns? Not a clue, intuitively I would guess, no, but who knows?. Does anyone know of any scripture that talks about this? I think your fatal flaw, though, is the fact that God is not damning everyone in this world to hell that has been killed as a result of our actions.
Hmmm. That would be beside the point, really. The issue as I see it would simply be is killing someone inconsistent with loving that someone?
We, as a country are killing whoever we choose.
I don't think that's accurate. We're certainly not indiscriminantly killing people.
We cannot be so cavalier and assume, "God's blessing is upon us, so we can do whatever we want."
I think that idea would be a caricature. I don't think anyone would say that absolutely anything would be permissible.
Love is the goal.
I would agree, if it were the case that the United States were the Church of Jesus Christ.
My only point has been, and will always be, Love. Is what Dr. Dobson doing out of love? or out of dislike for a certain group of people? That is my only concern.
How would such a judgment of Dobson's motives be within our purview?
As God is love (omnibenevolent), and God is judge, it would not seem to be the case that (at least for Him), love and judgment are mutually exclusive.
Hell is apparently the most benevolent place God has in his universe for the unrepentant. May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
JohnE
http://revivaltheology.netPost Edited (JEE) : 1/26/2005 9:00:00 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
  |  JET Registered Member
 Date Joined Jun 2002 Total Posts : 397 | Posted 1/26/2005 11:20 AM (GMT -6) |   |
JEE said... In the interest of fairness and accuracy, Dr. Dobson's point of view on this has been grossly misstated by the media:
Dr. Dobson has been mocked for saying that a group calling itself the We Are Family Foundation is using a video on "tolerance" -- one which features popular cartoon characters like SpongeBob SquarePants -- to potentially teach children that homosexuality is the moral and biological equivalent to heterosexuality. Instead of reporting those concerns accurately, though, reporters have twisted the story to say Dr. Dobson has suggested SpongeBob is gay.
Presumably to support this "twisting" hypothesis, the linked article provides several quotes by the "greatest offenders in the media". However, none of the provided quotes say that Dr. Dobson has suggested SpongeBob is gay.
The media reports I have seen or heard basically say Dobson is being silly for bringing SpongeBob into a debate over whether sexual identity should be included in tolerance education.
While I question (at least in some cases) the motives of the media, I have to say I agree with the premise (that Dobson is being silly for bringing SpongeBob into this debate).
JET Post Edited (JET) : 1/26/2005 10:26:56 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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