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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 3/22/2005 8:01 PM (GMT -6) |   |
Lord, come quickly. 
I hear ya D. But I don't want escapism either. I don't necessarily translate "Lord, come quickly" as escapism, but some do.
Brandon
"Theology is doxology"--John G. Stackhouse quoting J.I. Packer in "Evangelical Futures: A Conversation on Theological Method" | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 3/23/2005 1:15 AM (GMT -6) | | It's heartwrenching. There are a lot of families who are numb with pain tonight, mothers who, on Mother's Day, will remember the son or daughter that they held in their arms, who was taken from them, and fathers who wll try to bury their own pain, try to be brave as families celebrate Father's Day. Lord, comfort them. How do you make any sense out of senseless evil. My problems suddenly look like what kind of breakfast cereal I'm going to eat.
I am praying too. I trust the Father--in a world gone mad--I trust Him.
I understand the plea, Lord come quickly. But there are so many who need Him; this is a time for us to be salt and light.
'Nite, love, and prayers,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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AtTheWell
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 133
| Posted 3/24/2005 2:18 PM (GMT -6) | |
Selah said...I've been thinking. In the school shooting case...what's really going on? Are we supposed to believe this kid was just so so mean or so SO angry that he just started killing? or what. hmmm, I suppose that could be the case. or maybe it was the video games. maybe social pressures. maybe a messed up family situation ...or a variety of things. I don't know. How about THIS crazy thought...maybe it ws demonic possession? (Do we believe in that anymore?) After reading the article mephi posted...and a list of the 14/15 year old children who were killed...I can't help but think it sounds more like a demonic rampage than anything else. Absolutely random and positively evil. They say he smiled the whole time. What's up with that?
Selah,
The same thought came to my mind... especially with the suicide at the end-- it's demonic to be sure. Possession??? Yeah, I sure do want to pretend that doesn't exist anymore!!! Events such as these don't allow me to though. I have to consider that it is still a possibility-- then that in itself is a dangerous position, abuse is so rampant-- evil sucks! 
praying here too.
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 3/24/2005 3:04 PM (GMT -6) | |
MephEternal said...
This...world...is...hell.
This earth has glimmers of both Heaven and Hell.
“Where we find a difficulty we may always expect that a discovery awaits us.” C. S. Lewis Reflections on the Psalms (1961)
As I await the end of this cursed earth, manifested through the second coming of Christ and a new earth, I will pray for the families and community of Red Lake.
 "Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
Post Edited (sparknheart) : 3/24/2005 4:20:32 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/30/2005 10:20 AM (GMT -6) | | Ok. Now, I'll admit...I'm not an optimist. I struggle for a melioristic view (rather than deterioristic and pessimistic). But when you get up and read stuff like this...it's kinda hard.
All BBCNEWS, the best around in my opinion...
Planet Under Pressure: The Six Most Present Dangers
BBC News Online's Planet under Pressure series takes a detailed look at six areas where most experts agree that a crisis is brewing:
Food: An estimated 1 in 6 people suffer from hunger and malnutrition while attempts to grow food are damaging swathes of productive land.
Water: By 2025, two-thirds of the world's people are likely to be living in areas of acute water stress.
Energy: Oil production could peak and supplies start to decline by 2010
Climate change: The world's greatest environmental challenge, according to the UK prime minister Tony Blair, with increased storms, floods, drought and species losses predicted.
Biodiversity: Many scientists think the Earth is now entering its sixth great extinction phase.
Pollution: Hazardous chemicals are now found in the bodies of all new-born babies, and an estimated one in four people worldwide are exposed to unhealthy concentrations of air pollutants.
All six problems are linked and urgent, so a list of priorities is little help.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3686106.stm
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2004/planet/default.stm
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Study highlights global decline
The most comprehensive survey ever into the state of the planet concludes that human activities threaten the Earth's ability to sustain future generations.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4391835.stm
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Aid struggles to reach Indonesia
Damaged transport links and bad weather are hindering efforts to help survivors of Monday's earthquake that killed at least 1,000 people in Indonesia.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4392875.stm
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Thai child survivors face the future
The Navarak family can usually be found in their small hut in Khuk Khak refugee camp - along with many other Thais who lost their homes in December's tsunami.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4381607.stm
For most of last Thursday, eight-year-old Anasorn was missing.
He had fled to the hills earlier in the day after a tsunami warning, and only returned several hours later.
"He's still really scared," said Anasorn's father Thoon Navarak. "Whenever there's a rumour about another wave, he runs away and doesn't come back for ages."
"He survived the tsunami by floating on a piece of wood. He climbed into a tree, but when the water went down again he had to wait several hours before he was rescued. It's not something he can just forget."
Most of this was on the FRONT PAGE. And we didn't even GET to the situations of the Terri case, Iraq War, and all the other crap of the world.
Happy a happy friggin' day. 
God, please be a reality to us today.
Living in the hope of universal reconciliation,
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 3/30/2005 11:02 AM (GMT -6) | | I've got to say more.
I've got to wonder what Jesus thinks about all of this. If Jesus wept over Jerusalem and wept when his homeboy died, I can't imagine him doing anything but SOBBING over what the hell's going down in this world. The pain, the heartache, the trauma. All that. Life was hell enough with just NATURAL evil. Now, our human "progress" is in some serious ways hastening our pathway to destruction. Like Jesus said, in many ways "we know NOT what we do."
I cannot imagine a Being of perfect love in NO WAY being troubled by this. Further, I can no longer imagine a Being of perfect love, infinite intelligence, and omnipotence who would think it acceptable and allowable for anyone who makes it through this arduous journey to fall into some form of eternal self-destruction, when it's in that Being's proper authority and power to prevent this from occurring.
I once could do it easy. Now, I can't. I just can't. It can't make sense of that claim anymore. Not when I have reason to believe that there IS another way. Not when I believe that God was willing to go so far as to experience death and sin for our freedom and reconciliation. If God would go SO FAR as to incarnate Godself into our existence and DIE for us...I can't see ANY LIMIT to what God will do to get everyone to enjoy God's love forever. I just can't make sense of that other stuff anymore.
Now, if eternal self-destruction of sentient creatures IS true, and that's what God wanted to do, that's God's right. God be praised anyway! Jesus would still be Lord and God would still be the summum bonum of all existence. But I tell you what. God WOULD DEFINITELY have to do a lobotomy on me, so I'd forget all of the people who languished in an earthly hell ruled by a spiritual despot...only to fall into an eternal one. That way, I could truly enjoy heaven. For how can someone who loves God and loves their neighbor AS themselves be fully happy knowing that people are LANGUISHING in hell? William Lane Craig BETTER be right on that one.
I just hope all this breaks God heart at least as much as it does my own sin-filled, finite, human heart.
Inwardly broken-hearted and weeping,
"I've been converted three times. The first was to traditional Christianity; the second to honesty and the third was to the Love of God and man (humanity) The third was the real conversion. The first two were preliminary."
--Nels Ferre, a theologian speaking of his spiritual journey with the Triune God
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 3/30/2005 11:38 AM (GMT -6) | | Without even realizing it, the Church makess a tremendously arrogant statement when she says that per capita very, very few people are going to experience God's love. The vastly uncomprehendable amount of people left are, well, out of luck or left for God to deal with them (not said in the positive). And then to compound the matter by sending out missionaries to reach all corners of the world in order to, amazingly, solve this dilemma, once again dismissing the millions upon millions who will never hear or understand anything about Christianity. "We are to take the gospel to the world and offer salvation to those we are able." Good hearted, perhaps, but what a contradiction and a lack of thinking through. I'm just now waking up to it!
I haven't resolved to universalism, but I sure haven't resolved to our current evangelistic mission outreach as the anwer for avoiding hell.
I guess I could use a good calamity in my life to gain a better perspective and more appreciation for what goes on in a world that is sometimes so far, far removed from my world.
Starkman
My teacher used to say that whenever he read Scripture, he would always ask the question, "What does this have to say about the character of God?" Working off his thinking, as I read Scripture, I have come to ask, "What does this have to say about the heart and passion of God's desire for relationship for us?Post Edited (Starkman) : 3/30/2005 1:39:12 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 3/30/2005 12:02 PM (GMT -6) | | | Without meaning to hijack this thread, I would like to interject a rather different perspective than the typical evangelical one vis-a-vis the destiny of the unevangelized:
John 5:28 Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of LIFE, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of CONDEMNATION.
Acts 10: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Romans 2:6 [GOD] who "will render to each one according to his deeds": 7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God. 12For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
To my (non-universalist, thus far) understanding, no one will receive condemnation who has not willfully chosen to disobey what degree of divine revelation he had, and everyone has enough knowledge of God to know right from wrong and to be able to choose the right (to live in God's love) if they will.
My 2c
John
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
JohnE
http://revivaltheology.netPost Edited (JEE) : 3/30/2005 11:17:18 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 3/30/2005 5:01 PM (GMT -6) | | |
MephEternal said...
John:
To my (non-universalist, thus far) understanding, no one will receive condemnation who has not willfully chosen to disobey what degree of divine revelation he had, and everyone has enough knowledge of God to know right from wrong and to be able to choose the right (to live in God's love) if they will.
Does this mean this:
The only people who will receive condemnation are those who knowingly, consciously, and willfully choose to shun whatever degree of divine revelation provided to them that they truly understood, no matter how small?
John responds: Yes. I do not subscribe to the Augustinian-Calvinian idea that "in Adam's Fall, we sinned all." My views are basically semi-Pelagian, in that I do believe that as a result of Adam's sin, we all inherit physical depravity as distinguished from moral depravity, which is chosen, not necessitated. I categorically reject the Augustinian innovation known of as "Original Sin."
My understanding of the above passages I cited, as well as Romans 1, 2, & 3, Ezek. 3, 18, & 33, along with several other key passages, leads me to conclude that moral depravity is entered into voluntarily by all, not of necessity but of their own free choice. "Even as they did not WANT to retain the knowledge of God in their minds...God gave them over to a depraved mind."
And...something else. Do you hold to post-mortem evangelism?
Still undecided on that, actually. It would not seem necessary for theodical (sp?) purposes in my view, given the above understanding of moral depravity and the possibility of anyone to submit to the influence of the Holy Spirit, if they would.
Blessings,
John
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
JohnE
http://revivaltheology.netPost Edited (JEE) : 3/30/2005 4:11:31 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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