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One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 3/23/2005 11:47 AM (GMT -6)

Question:

what is the measure of a spiritually mature person? What qualities do they have? How do they live? What do they do? what manifestions of spirituality are present?

I just feel like asking this question. I remember in my "Religion and Personality" class back in seminary, our professor asked us a variation of this question. It was very interesting in that our descriptions of the spiritually mature person ended up being quite different than many of us thought it would have been.

So give it a go.

"I've been converted three times. The first was to traditional Christianity; the second to honesty and the third was to the Love of God and man (humanity) The third was the real conversion. The first two were preliminary."

--Nels Ferre, a theologian speaking of his spiritual journey with the Triune God

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 3/23/2005 2:45 PM (GMT -6)

Generally speaking, I look for the fruit of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit affirms to me or convicts me when I'm walking or not walking with Him. Spiritual maturity, then, is marked by sensitivity to the Spirit, and measured by consistency in yielding in obedience. To put it another way... it's how much you love God, love yourself, love others!

What do you think? This definition is inward and subjective; it doesn't necessarily produce a phenomenological checklist. It implies that "spiritual maturity" may wax and wane over the course of one's life. On this way of thinking, a young, theologically underdeveloped Christian may be more mature than a seasoned theologian.

Post Edited (Corey) : 3/23/2005 1:58:08 PM (GMT-6)

AtTheWell
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 133

Posted 3/23/2005 3:11 PM (GMT -6)

Corey said...
Generally speaking, I look for the fruit of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit affirms to me or convicts me when I'm walking or not walking with Him. Spiritual maturity, then, is marked by sensitivity to the Spirit, and measured by consistency in yielding in obedience.

What do you think? This definition is inward and subjective; it doesn't necessarily produce a phenomenological checklist. It implies that "spiritual maturity" may wax and wane over the course of one's life. On this way of thinking, a young, theologically undeveloped Christian may be more mature than a seasoned theologian.

Immediate thoughts-- this makes sense to me, inward and subjective are key. I wonder, how can I measure another's spiritual maturity, really? I mean certainly there would be occasions that it would come in handy, say in choosing a pastor, leader, guide, etc... I would need fairly intimate knowledge to make this call without any reservations.

though manifestation of spiritual maturity would at least look like, sharing the good news, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, touching the lonely, being in constant communication with the Father, obedience to God... hmmm

Peace,
ATW

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 3/23/2005 3:54 PM (GMT -6)

present, loving, boundary holding, persevering, authentic, readily admits when wrong, christocentric, good.

off the top of my head

love
selah

Psalm 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. 2 Therefore we will not fear, though the earth should change, though the mountains shake in the heart of the sea; 3 though its waters roar and foam, though the mountains tremble with its tumult.... 4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy habitation of the Most High. 5 God is in the midst of the city; it shall not be moved; God will help it when the morning dawns. 6 The nations are in an uproar, the kingdoms totter; he utters his voice, the earth melts. 7 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. ...10 "Be still, and know that I am God! I am exalted among the nations, I am exalted in the earth." 11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 3/23/2005 3:59 PM (GMT -6)

A "mature" apple tree is a tree that bears apples.

A spiritually mature person is a person that bears the fruit of "the Spirit" (Gal. 5 and 1Cor. 13).

Tom

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 3/23/2005 4:10 PM (GMT -6)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<-throws an apple at tom

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 3/23/2005 4:47 PM (GMT -6)

See, there ya go. Women and apples. From the start you've had a thing about apples. Sheesh!

Tom

1Heart
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128

Posted 3/24/2005 3:16 AM (GMT -6)

They recognize that the Kingdom is about more than navel gazing. It is about community, about giving yourself for others, and about relationship more than it is about rules--relationship with the Father first, and with each other.

Jo-Anne

"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 3/24/2005 7:27 AM (GMT -6)

They end their posts with little pictures of angels with halos! devil

wjs

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 3/24/2005 9:34 AM (GMT -6)

I think it is someone who, whether I can see it (directly) or not, who has become more solidified toward God; that much more one with God, with God's heart and with God's passions.

Starkman

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 3/24/2005 9:55 AM (GMT -6)

jefscott said...
They end their posts with little pictures of angels with halos! devil

Ouch!

"Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

AtTheWell
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 133

Posted 3/24/2005 1:52 PM (GMT -6)

Selah said:

...and I would pay cash to anyone who finishes this paper for me

Ok, how much $$$ are we talkin' here? icon_bandit

Peace,
ATW

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 3/24/2005 6:44 PM (GMT -6)

...in. on. time. there. is. a. God.

1 Corinthians 2:1-5
When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 3/24/2005 9:49 PM (GMT -6)

SparknHeart said...

jefscott said...
They end their posts with little pictures of angels with halos! devil

Ouch!

Sorry, bro! Normally my sense of humor is sick. But early in the morning it is exceptionally so!!! :-)

wjs

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 3/24/2005 11:16 PM (GMT -6)

jefscott said...

SparknHeart said...

jefscott said...
They end their posts with little pictures of angels with halos! devil

Ouch!

Sorry, bro! Normally my sense of humor is sick. But early in the morning it is exceptionally so!!! :-)

That's cool, Jeff. My humor is sick 24X7, but I welcome any good therapy that keeps me off my medication. turn The stuff has terrible side affects, you know. Like losing good hair and then growing new hair where God never meant hair to be. Not to mention the hallucinations of little angles with halos.

Post Edited (sparknheart) : 3/24/2005 10:42:49 PM (GMT-6)

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 3/25/2005 6:32 PM (GMT -6)

I was on another site this week talking about how LFW gives way over time to CF (compatibilistic free will). You know, the whole "our choices form our habits, our habits form our character, and our character in turn determines our choices" thing. The audience was like, "What? Can you speak English please?" and then one guy proceded to thrash me with a lecture about how incoherent that was. And he affirms LFW!

What's not to get about the process of solidification?

Tom

Reader
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 66

Posted 3/26/2005 8:41 AM (GMT -6)

The argument "our character determines our choices" only goes so far. We find hardening in the case of Pharaoh and both Pharaoh hardens His heart and God hardens Pharoah's heart. In the case of God hardening it, it was attributed to God and not to character.

rossfadeinout
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 428

Posted 3/26/2005 3:32 PM (GMT -6)

Hey Tom,

I would be interested in reading the discussion about LFW that you are talking about. Where was the discussion taking place?

But as a passing remark (it is off the sbject of this thread), I do not think that character solidification leads to Compatibilistic freedom. We may be unable to sin as we solidify our character towards the good, but our actions are not determined to only one path (which is my understanding of compatibalism). As an example, God cannot do evil, but I would not describe His freedom as compatibalistic. He is free to do a variety of different actions, and the choice is not determined.

What do you think?

Ross

"Let us remember how common the folly is of going from one faulty extreme into the opposite." -Thomas Reid

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 3/28/2005 9:19 AM (GMT -6)

drag....drag....drag... thump!

Me pulling out my dead horse so I can beat him again...

A spiritually mature person is one who dresses correctly for church ( wears a tie if necessary, or the correct designer jeans ) . Also, lifts hands up and shouts, or sits , kneels, or stands correctly. Also, pays tithes of at least 10% of their gross salary. NEVER questions "authority". Doesn't butt in line at the tape or book counter . Attended their local church building at least twice during the last week . Sang when told to sing. Praise when told to praise. Listened when told to listen. Danced when told to dance. Compassionate when told to be compassionate. Wept at the sad pictures on the video display. Shook hands when told to shake hands.

drag... drag... drag... thump! I put him back now.

peace, don

I know all the right shibboleths.

Viator
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 12

Posted 3/28/2005 2:55 PM (GMT -6)

Ahhhh, spiritual maturity. Mother Teresa before death...she didn't think she was.. Billy Graham...he doesn't think so. Greg Boyd...he would deny being spiritually mature. In this life...spiritual maturity? To one degree or another. Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord with all you heart, soul, mind, and strength. And, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. Walking the walk...under the Lordship of Jesus....

You know, I don't know that we will ever be spiritually mature. I expect tht throughout eternity we will continue to grow in grace and knowledge....In Christ I suppose we are perfect. But....hmmmm.

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