Open Theism Discussion Board
  HomeLog InRegisterSearch the ForumHelp
   
Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > General Chat > Meph's 7/31 Sermon on Community  Forum Quick Jump
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!




Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
 
   Posted 8/6/2005 1:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Meph, since you wanted to get the other "Hustle and Flow" thread back on track, I thought I'd just post my thoughts here because I listened to your sermon and it got me thinking about a few things.

 

First, I didn't get the sense that you were conveying a message as "just love the sinner and ignore the sin."  I didn't hear you saying any part saying to ignore the sin, but it seemed you were emphasizing "love the sinner."  Agape.  And I'm sure you'd agree that when a person admits a sin, such as child pornography, the group shouldn't just say "hallelujah, now let's go sing kumbayah (however it's spelled)" and ONLY be a fan club to that person and let them continue on down the sinful and destructive path.  But instead, you’re saying to help the person toward the right direction, right?

 

As far as I know (and call me naiive or whatever), when people confess something, especially of THAT magnitude, they WANT to recover, make ammends, do whatever necessary to stop.  But we know many of those people NEED that support group in order to take the appropriate steps.  And suppose the sin requires going to prison, such as in the case of child pornography, or being a rapist, or things of the like. The person who has no support to do the right things is more likely to repeat, to hide, to run away... why? Fear, anxiety, debilitating guilt that drives them down even more, etc.

 

Now hear me out: we shouldn't casually brush off the sin after confession, we should aim to convince the person to take the right steps in repentance--including turning oneself in to the authorities, even if it comes down to saying to the confessor "Bro (or sis), you know where my heart is and that I truly care for you as God knows, but if you don't turn yourself in as the law requires, I'm going to have to take action for your sake and the sake of others, but remember we are with you supporting you 100% of the way."  THAT'S Agape (IMHO). 

 

For the person who does not wish to turn from their sin and goes on sinning all the more, then yes, there's the alternative of tough love that hopefully would shake them out of that mentality.  But once they show that they truly repented and are taking appropriate actions to demonstrate the changed heart, the community should open their arms to that person and help them along.  (You know the guy mentioned in 1 Corinthians 5 who Paul said to kick out of the church? In 2 Corinthians 2:5-11 Paul says basically "ok, now that guy's repented... show him love." Right?)

 

Here's one of the big reasons in my mind: as far as I know, statistics tell us that there is a high rate of repeat offenders.  From what I've learned from Prison Fellowship is that those who have a support group or a confidant when going through prison and getting out have a MUCH lower likelihood of committing another offense than those without support.

 

I agree that we should still take self-protective precautions with any sin.  Here's what I mean: for a person who gets out of prison for, say, child porn--they should not be allowed around any kids, for the rapist--he should not be in any situation where they'd be alone with females, for the wife-beater--he should live separate from his wife for a while until after enough counciling, for the sex-addict--he or she should develop close friendships only with those of the same gender.  And all these people need someone who would hold them accountable in a loving way... who can encourage them.  Agape.


 If you're going to be skeptical, be fair and be skeptical of skepticism.

Back to Top
 

Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!




Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
 
   Posted 8/6/2005 1:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

One more thing you got me thinking about is, where’s my limit?  

 

Is there a type of crime that one could commit that would cause me to absolutely avoid that person, even after extreme repentance?  What type of people would I have a difficulty showing agape?  

 

I came to the conclusion that there are many types of people… something I realized I really have to work on.


 If you're going to be skeptical, be fair and be skeptical of skepticism.

Back to Top
 

One Love
Registered Member




Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
 
   Posted 8/6/2005 2:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Violin:
First, I didn't get the sense that you were conveying a message as "just love the sinner and ignore the sin." I didn't hear you saying any part saying to ignore the sin, but it seemed you were emphasizing "love the sinner." Agape. And I'm sure you'd agree that when a person admits a sin, such as child pornography, the group shouldn't just say "hallelujah, now let's go sing kumbayah (however it's spelled)" and ONLY be a fan club to that person and let them continue on down the sinful and destructive path. But instead, you’re saying to help the person toward the right direction, right?

and...(emphasis mine)

Now hear me out: we shouldn't casually brush off the sin after confession, we should aim to convince the person to take the right steps in repentance--including turning oneself in to the authorities, even if it comes down to saying to the confessor "Bro (or sis), you know where my heart is and that I truly care for you as God knows, but if you don't turn yourself in as the law requires, I'm going to have to take action for your sake and the sake of others, but remember we are with you supporting you 100% of the way." THAT'S Agape (IMHO).

Violin, I mean this from the bottom of my heart...

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!


Yes, yes, yes. Praise God. Hallelujah!

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

This is very much my perspective, too, Vi. My main issue is when people JUDGE others and NOT stand with them as they go through their healing process, even if that means dealing with severe consequences of their actions. Especially in the Christian community context.

And the questions you bring up are EXACTLY the questions we need to be asking ourselves. Not to judge ourselves, but so that we can know our limitations and why they may be there!

Excellent stuff, Vi. Absolutely excellent.

devil


To all heresy-hunters and general lames...
 
"I'm connected nationwide, but from the South...
Respect game, and keep my name outcha mouth!"
       --adapted from T.I. From P$C's "I'm a King"
 

Back to Top
 

BBBCanada
Registered Member




Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
 
   Posted 8/7/2005 11:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Soooo cool. Question. What is forgiveness? Can there be TRUE forgiveness without the offender's asking for it? Is there a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation? HOW do you forgive someone who doesn't want it? Is forgiveness a one way or two way street?


Brandon

Back to Top
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 10:27 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads