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CalvinnHobbes
Registered Member




Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 8/11/2005 5:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Hello friends!  I beseech your wisdom here....

 

I'm starting an MDiv program at Bethel this fall and am considering which church I should "call home" while I'm in the Saint Paul area.  I just moved up from Iowa and would really like to be part of the community at Woodland Hills Church.  The teaching is right where I want to be (from what I've seen up here so far and heard online for quite some time).  And their push for unity is precisely what I think the Church needs to be about these days.  And my hesitance to register agreement with Greg’s position on “open theism, omniscience, and the nature of the future,” or even with some of Mephi’s leanings, in no way turns me off to their leadership or community of faith.  I'm profoundly thankful for and touched by their ministry to God's people.

 

However, I've been sought out by a seminary professor up here who pastors a different church further from the cities.  He would like me to be a part of his church and help build a twentysomethings ministry essentially from the ground up.  (I realize some of you may know the pastor and/or church I'm discussing somewhat ambiguously here, and that's fine.)  In this offer I have my program's internship requirement as good as fulfilled, should I choose to take him up on it.  And I don't know what to think about the chances of landing internships in larger churches (like a Bethlehem Baptist or Woodland Hills or someplace).  I imagine the line of would-be-interns in such places is both lengthy and perennial. 

 

But about 85% of this pastor's church is composed of people in their 30s and beyond.  In decreasing order of concentration, the constituency goes as follows: people in their 40s, then 50s, 30s, 60s, 70s+, early teens, 20's (about 5%), then later teens (<5%).  about 15% of the church is single.  They're a bit smaller, having two services and, I would roughly guess, 300-500 people (if that). So this gives you a little context.

 

Bottom line, I just have no desire (at present) to attend this church or to take on the task this pastor/professor has laid out.  And I've been transparent with him in describing my reasons for this.  He expressed understanding with my rationale, although I’m not entirely sure what he really thinks of my comments.  There are some pushes vis-a-vis his church and some pulls vis-a-vis others (especially Woodland Hills).  I'll just candidly throw out some of my concerns here (you might want to call some more "selfish" than others), and I'd appreciate some feedback from you guys.  Tell me what concerns you think are legitimate, which aren’t, where I’m selfish, where I’m not, what freedom and/or wisdom would decree, etc.  Be the church for me here if you would be so kind. :-) 

 

In no particular order:

 

(a)     My desire/goal in attending seminary has long been to teach and counsel in the context of a college and/or post-college ministry.   My university undergraduate years were the most spiritually formative of my life, in terms of coming to and struggling with faith.  I spent a significant amount of time really engaging the marketplace of ideas, hanging out in philosophical circles, exchanging theologies, wrestling with what I really did believe, questioning what I maybe ought to have believed, etc.  And I want to remain relatively close to that watershed in people’s lives.  But this pastor’s church lacks the very cohort I both desire and believe I'm most fit to minister to.  

 

(b)     I also fear that the sort of pioneering leadership this pastor is looking for probably requires some particularly nuanced leadership qualities that I’m not confident I currently possess. I believe God has given me significant strengths in teaching and counseling, but I'm not sure how wired I am for more "entrepreneurial" projects. 

 

(c)     The teaching at his church neither deeply connects with nor moves me (not surprising, I suppose, given the audience it's tailored for), whereas the teaching in at least two other churches I’m strongly drawn to up here certainly does (Woodland Hills being one of them).  And coming from my former church, where I felt the teaching didn’t challenge or inspire me a great deal, I both desire to be and think it might even be healthier for me to be in an environment that does so.

 

(d)     I'm also in my 20s and single.  (Uh oh!  We're really gettin' candid now! lol )  So relationally the community there feels profoundly unsettling, given the demographic.  I’ve visited and felt like an alien.  Their experience of the world is not mine, and mine is not theirs.   

 

(e)     His church is also an hour away from where I’m living, which would really start to look ugly as internship hours increased. 

 

Anyway.  These are some of the bigger concerns.  I would greatly appreciate your thoughts here.  I'm a little stressed about all of this.  I really don't want to join his church (at least now) or take on this task, which I certainly think is a worthy endeavor.  And, of course, this is not to say that I couldn't end up desiring to do something like this a little further down the seminary road.  I just don't want to plan on it at this point or start attending this church assuming I will want such a thing a little later.  I just hope that this being the case is not indicative of some serious spiritual deformity on my part or something.  But perhaps some of you would say it is.  Regardless, please let me know your thoughts. 

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Shane

 


"There is no fit search after truth which does not, first of all, begin to live the truth which it knows."  ~Horace Bushnell

Post Edited (CalvinnHobbes) : 8/18/2005 5:16:43 PM (GMT-5)

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TalkingBull
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4
 
   Posted 8/12/2005 8:37 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm new here but I'll offer my thoughts anyways,

if you're not excited about this possibility, pass on it. If you have to force yourself to do it, how hard do you think it will be to stick with it when the "going gets tough"?

I would think other potential avenues to get experience exist and many of them much closer than an hour commute. Personally, I hate commuting.

This pioneering pastor needs a charismatic (the non-religious meaning of 'charismatic') youth leader in order to draw kids to this old-fogie church. If you're not that person, you'd be doing both he and you a disfavor by taking the position.

As for good teaching and chicks, go for it. There can be no downside to going where there's chicks and good teaching when you're young and single.

I don't think God would force you to do something you really didn't want to do; this not being a moral decision.
 
If you're starting school, I would suggest you concentrate on chicks and studying.  In that order.  I'm kidding.  Of course you can slack on the studying.....
 
 

Post Edited (TalkingBull) : 8/12/2005 8:44:50 AM (GMT-5)

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RL
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 12
 
   Posted 8/16/2005 10:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Shane, there are the reasons one begins with, and there are later the reasons one ends with. Somewhere in all that is the fact that the Church is all of us. Everything in it needs to recognize the connections: the interrelations and the uniquenesses of each part. If you are willing to not commit tentatively then go for the most wholistic internship you can find -- and expect to learn as much from the blue-haired grandmas as you hope the kids learn from you.

Whatever you do, mix both learning and activities with service and cross-generational fellowship. The kids and the "old kids" all need the wholeness of cross generational life.

And as a grad-student YOU WILL TOO.

I know that does not answer your question, at all. Its just an observation. You get to figure out how to apply it. But remember too that you might switch the place along the way. But pick good goals now.

Hope that's not too much of an observation. Sorry if it was.


be not conformed, but be transformed...

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might-be-don
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
 
   Posted 8/16/2005 11:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Another thought...

Look for the balance.

Heavy school load ---- light internship
Light school load ---- heavy internship

Look at the overall impact on your live right now... you need to be able to get through all of this intact.

peace, don


The world's perfect, wouldn't change a thing.
 

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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!




Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
 
   Posted 8/16/2005 5:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Before giving my 2c... Shane, for background info, have you been involved in a college/post-college ministry before?  If so, how long? 


 If you're going to be skeptical, be fair and be skeptical of skepticism.

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CalvinnHobbes
Registered Member




Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 88
 
   Posted 8/17/2005 11:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for the feedback, all.  Some very good points in there. 
 
Yes, Violin, I have been involved in college and post-college ministry.  I was on a team of teachers in an apologetics ministry to the students of Iowa State University for a year.  I was on another team of teachers in a post-college/pre-minivan ministry for about six months, until moving here recently.  I attended a large college student ministry for close to seven years.  I attended the post-college group (that I wound up teaching in) for a little over a year.  Does that help?


"There is no fit search after truth which does not, first of all, begin to live the truth which it knows."  ~Horace Bushnell

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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!




Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
 
   Posted 8/17/2005 11:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yup, definitely helps!

Well, as you may have experienced then, people in that age group tend to be very, uhm, mobile. They'll go where it's all good, so to speak. So my advice would be this, go where you can find the tinder. If you don't feel quite at home in a certain church, chances are they won't either. No tinder, no fire.

Secondly, I'd suggest trying to find out the motivations or overall plans of the pastoral staff at whatever church you may find an opening. The more support you have, the better, especially since you'll have other responsibilities in school. I'd say if a church changes directions like the tide, well, that's one thing to really take into consideration.

There may be a time where you can only take what you can find in as far as finding a postion, but if a couple of options open up where you can choose, then all the better.

Good luck!


 If you're going to be skeptical, be fair and be skeptical of skepticism.

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