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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/6/2003 12:01 PM (GMT -6) |   | Figuring out the imaginary timeline of a movie. You guys must be single, because you have WAY too much time on your hands | | Back to Top | | |
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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/7/2003 5:01 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/7/2003 5:24 AM (GMT -6) | | | Blood: Congrats...marriage is wonderful...(though hectic) | | Back to Top | | |
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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/10/2003 5:11 AM (GMT -6) | | Well, I saw Matrix Revolutions on Saturday night and as always it was a little over my head. I thought it was better than the second movie, action-wise, though. The ending was rather surprising, too. Do you think Neo would have given up his life so readily if Trinity hadn't died? Also, is it just me or was the face the machines formed and spoke to Neo through the face of a baby? Why would they use a baby's face of all things!?
Finally, it seems like maybe the Oracle was really only using the humans as pawns to preserve the Matrix, rather than destroy it. After all, if the humans had destroyed the Matrix and the machines, she as a program would cease to exist. But, it's interesting that the humans weren't destroyed, but instead the machines made peace with them. I suppose the Oracle recogized that in order to save the Matrix from the Smith virus, there had to be a human to destroy it. But, couldn't one of the humans still in the pods be used for that purpose instead of letting the humans in Zion live? The whole thing is so bizarre. It almost seems like even though the Oracle kept saying that the humans needed to make their own choices, she was somehow manipulating them into making the choices she wanted them to make. I don't trust her anymore.
Tigress 
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
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Blood Washed Heretic
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167
| Posted 11/11/2003 5:14 AM (GMT -6) | | I haven't taken the movie in again yet, but I do have some more thoughts, particularly on Neo/Smith.
The Oracle says that Smith IS Neo, at least his negative. Now I'm not going to dive into any ontological speculation here, because honestly I think that's excusing bad storytelling on the brothers' part. I realize they wanted to leave some things open to interpretation, but seriously.
Anyway, since I'm a big fat sucker, I have interpreted the Neo/Smith struggle allegorically and have made an immediate application to my spiritual life. Prof. Tolkien would be so ashamed of me. I see the conflict between Neo and Smith as (and I'm sure the brothers didn't have this in mind) an allegory for spiritual warfare on the personal level, what the Muslims would refer to as the greater jihad, the struggle against sin and evil that each individual wrestles with. Paul says in Romans 12 that the holy life is a life that breaks way from the conformity of sin. The virus-like Smith has produced copies of himself onto every man, woman, child, and program in the Matrix (apparently) by the time Neo confronts him in the rain. Perfect conformity achieved by the evil half of the Neo/Smith duality. Manicheistic? You bet.
Now, this is where the Christ allegory hinted at in the first film (Neo's resurrection in the hallway) comes to full fruition. However, it turns the Christian myth on its ear (and by myth, I of course don't mean untrue. Christianity IS the true myth. But that's a different discussion...)
While Christ died to break the power of sin, and then was raised, Neo does the opposite. He dies and is resurrected at the beginning of his mission. Now, at the end, he allows Smith to assimilate him (resistance is futile  ), and is subsequently unplugged by the machines, destroying Smith in the process. I don't quite understand HOW, but then again, I don't really understand the mechanics of Christ's victory either. It worked, and that's all I need to know.
So, the destruction of evil is accomplished by the ultimate sacrifice of the good. Neo's crucifix pose as the machines take his body away drives home this point to the lowest common denominators, the sentinels pack up and leave Zion, and the Oracle shares an American Greetings moment with the little program girl and Arky. Lame ending.
OK, so what are we left with? The Neo/Smith dichotomy can be seen on the one hand to be an allegory for the daily grind of our spiritual lives (I do do what I don't want to do, etc.), but the way it ends appears to the Christian mind to be a pretty clear riff on the Passion (minus Easter morning, unless the Oracle's comment about possibly seeing Neo again means more than just warm fuzzies).
Well, DLW, you asked for more of my thoughts. What do yall think?
In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love. | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 11/14/2003 6:40 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Tigress
Well, I saw Matrix Revolutions on Saturday night and as always it was a little over my head. I thought it was better than the second movie, action-wise, though. The ending was rather surprising, too. Do you think Neo would have given up his life so readily if Trinity hadn't died? Also, is it just me or was the face the machines formed and spoke to Neo through the face of a baby? Why would they use a baby's face of all things!?
I think Trinity's death definitely made Neo more willing to accept death. What makes you think it was a baby's face? Did anyone else get that impression...
quote:
Finally, it seems like maybe the Oracle was really only using the humans as pawns to preserve the Matrix, rather than destroy it. After all, if the humans had destroyed the Matrix and the machines, she as a program would cease to exist. [quote]
I don't think the humans were trying to destroy the Matrix. I think their own survival and the end of persecution by the agents/sentinels was what their goal was.
[quote]But, it's interesting that the humans weren't destroyed, but instead the machines made peace with them. I suppose the Oracle recogized that in order to save the Matrix from the Smith virus, there had to be a human to destroy it. But, couldn't one of the humans still in the pods be used for that purpose instead of letting the humans in Zion live? The whole thing is so bizarre. It almost seems like even though the Oracle kept saying that the humans needed to make their own choices, she was somehow manipulating them into making the choices she wanted them to make. I don't trust her anymore.
If you go back to MRel, you will see that while Oracle can manipulate the immediate future some on trivial choices, she never claimed to tell humans what they must do/believe, just provided them perspectives on their future choices that they had to decide for themselves about.
In the end, Oracle is placed in the same position as the humans, having to make leap of faiths or acting on beliefs rather than certainties...
dlw
Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes." | | Back to Top | | |
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